The new PMO TBs

toddu · 12-19-2007, 10:27 AM

Any recommendations on mgmt systems for these? (or maybe which ones to absolutely avoid) They seem to widely range in price and functionality. Some even costing more than the TB's themselves.

Is this generally considered a more desirable setup these days over actual carbs?

Todd

Peter Kelly · 12-19-2007, 03:51 PM

I am considering putting a set on my 3.2 and have narrowed the engine management to DTA or Haltech, leaning toward DTA right now.

cnavarro · 12-19-2007, 06:12 PM

I've used Autronic and SDS. SDS is bare bones simple, and really easy for someone who has never worked with EFI, and very nicely priced for all the goodies it has (they added knock sensing). For someone used to Motec, Autronic, Link, etc., the SDS can seem a little backwards.

Dennis Kalma · Dennis Kalma's Garage

Just got the notice that PMO will not be selling these to end users, only through "qualified" shops as the installation is "very complicated"....

So much for them, the attitude alone makes me want to buy elsewhere....

TWM's it is then....

Dennis

Peter Kelly · 12-21-2007, 03:17 AM

I would buy the TWM 3003's over the PMOs anyhow. Seems to me there are a lot of little design details with ITBs and TWMs have been out there quite a while.

cnavarro · 12-21-2007, 05:11 AM

I'll throw out there Jenvey makes a great ITB too. That said, I use and sell TWMs and have been very happy with them.

onboost · 12-21-2007, 07:32 AM

Good to see this thread guys..

I've got a set of the TWMs for my 73 that will get a short stroke 3.2 build this summer.. I hope.

I've also been looking at and trying to decide on a mgmt system. Of course would love to go MoTec etc.. but from a $$$ point it just ain't gonna happen.

The sickness deepens for me in that I also have a 930 that will eventually go to EFI so my thought was to not buy two different brands. If I buy DTA for one, I guess I'd want DTA for the other to at least be able to share some of the peripherals or base maps or something... am I way off here?

Also, I see that know one mentioned the Tech lll R, and not much talk about Haltech... any thoughts on these?

Thanks

Peter Kelly · 10:05 AM

As far as the management system selection goes, my process has been to:

-Download the Software and manuals for systems I am interested in.

-Play with the software to see how easy or hard the whole process is

-Search and read the internet message boards including Pelican, Renlist, efi101, and the brand specific boards

-Talk to people I know in the industry, (both tuners and engine builders).

- Price out systems.

From this process I am leaning toward using DTA, I really like the software, it has a solid rep, will fire indivdual coils without extra boxes, and does not cost more than the intake and exhaust system put together. I am still considering Haltech, I need to play with their software some more.

Things that help me eliminate systems are:

It has "dos ported" or dos software (1 major manufacturer still sells lower end ECU's (all I need) with dos software!

It has quirky software or strange user interface software.

It has widespread reputation for unreliability (not just a few bashers on web sites)

It is IMO overpriced or not good value.

onboost · 12-21-2007, 08:57 AM

Peter..

Nice approach... and thanks for tip on EFI101, was not familiar with that forum.

Also had not considered the fact that some of the manufacturers may still bre dos based.. wow, in a windows world!

Had looked at DTA and was slated to be in on a group buy with some Turbo guys but I had to opt-out for other reasons. All the research showed that DTA seemed to be a reliable and cost effective alternative between some of the lower end stuff and the higher end units.

Would you care to share the brands and your findings/reasons on those that were eliminated from your consideration?

Thanks again...

Paul

cnavarro · 12-21-2007, 09:05 AM

Although many consider it a hinderance, the SDS's small, handheld programmer allows you to store it in the glovebox easily and not have to use a laptop, etc.

Steve@Rennsport · 12-21-2007, 01:55 PM

Don't discount the Motec M48 as its now very very reasonable.

While it uses the older DOS-based software, its VERY reliable and has lots of both resolution and features.

Peter Kelly · 12-21-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve @ Rennsport Systems

Don't discount the Motec M48 as its now very very reasonable.

While it uses the older DOS-based software, its VERY reliable and has lots of both resolution and features.

I didn't bother to price the M48 because there is no way in the world I am buying a dos based product in 2008. Hell, I wouldn't have bought one in 2002.

Steve@Rennsport · 05:29 PM

While I respect your general disdain for DOS-based products, I would assure anyone that the "old" M48 is FAR FAR more capable and durable than many Windows based Engine Management systems available today.

Peter Kelly · 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve @ Rennsport Systems

While I respect your general disdain for DOS-based products, I would assure anyone that the "old" M48 is FAR FAR more capable and durable than many Windows based Engine Management systems available today.

I am sure you are right, and I know I can name several that fit that bill. Conversely, there are IMO better values out there for my application that do have software built for this century, DTA being the prime example, from what I can tell so far.

Also, it is not distain for Dos, but practicality. Who knows if 3-4 years down the line you will even be able to run the dos stuff. I know that with XP or Vista not all apps run, and many require lots of screwing around, or you must keep an old dinasaur laptop around to run your dos stuff. None of those options are appealing to me. I have enough trouble running 1 MS platform at a time on all our PCs.

Steve@Rennsport · 12-21-2007, 08:06 PM

FWIW,....All Motec software, DOS or Windows, run just fine on the XP platform as I use both suites of them on various boxes.

I cannot vouch for Vista since I think its a big POS, for the present.

safe · safe's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve @ Rennsport Systems

Don't discount the Motec M48 as its now very very reasonable.

While it uses the older DOS-based software, its VERY reliable and has lots of both resolution and features.

In what neighborhood is "very very reasonable"?

shbop · 12-22-2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Kalma

Just got the notice that PMO will not be selling these to end users, only through "qualified" shops as the installation is "very complicated"....

So much for them, the attitude alone makes me want to buy elsewhere....

TWM's it is then....

Dennis

Wow! That's a disappointment. I was rather looking forward to seeing how these worked-out.

cnavarro · 12-22-2007, 08:10 AM

It's probably the same reason I normally won't sell ITBs or ECUs alone to most customers unless they are die hard do it yourselfers with a high enough skill level or previous experience doing fi conversions. I'd rather not have the sale. It's easier to purchase a complete kit for the end user, that is already thought out and all the kinks are already worked out. I would imagine PMO's decision to not sell ITBs to an end user is because of support - they want dealers and shops with experience supplying the knowledge and assistance to the end user. It makes sense to me.

911quest · 12-22-2007, 09:06 AM

I did an Autronic install about 5 years ago and had to go to pawn shop and purchase an old laptop too run the program. I don't know if they have changed the programs but the install wasn't that tough.

Steve@Rennsport · 12-22-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnavarro

It's probably the same reason I normally won't sell ITBs or ECUs alone to most customers unless they are die hard do it yourselfers with a high enough skill level or previous experience doing fi conversions. I'd rather not have the sale. It's easier to purchase a complete kit for the end user, that is already thought out and all the kinks are already worked out. I would imagine PMO's decision to not sell ITBs to an end user is because of support - they want dealers and shops with experience supplying the knowledge and assistance to the end user. It makes sense to me.

Charles:

We do make ITB systems and I must agree with you (and PMO) on this, based on personal experience.

I've mistakenly sold a few systems to DIY'ers all with the best of intentions, but lacking the experience to assemble, install and make it run properly. When this happens, the manufacturer is always blamed and it unfortunately & unfairly soils their reputation.

We will sell them to experienced personnel and qualified shops to prevent anyone from having problems that frustrate both parties.