anybody do a 3.2 showroom stock engine?

charleskieffner · 01-18-2008, 07:15 AM

interested in any foresight/tricks/innovations on taking a F-CLASS showroom stock motor down to crank for a rebuild. engine has 119K and eats about a 1/4 of a quart of oil every 1579 miles, lil smoke on startup, once warm smoke gone. no other issues,runs strong.

what would YOU do...........to make this motor live a nice long happy as hell productive life????

lets start with:

crank balanced

ARP rod bolts

new valve guides

already have front setrab cooler,fender cooler,engine cooler.

what else exalted engine gurus?

DCinVA · 01-18-2008, 09:22 AM

It sounds like it is "living a nice long happy as hell productive life" already.

If it aint broke .......

Drive it and have fun !!!

charleskieffner · 01-18-2008, 09:58 AM

sorry DCinVA not the answer we are looking for.

"it aint broke" NEVER WORKED OFFROAD RACING and we sure as hell didnt chew off a 7 race series(finishing 2nd overall in state) with 119K miles on the motor!

looking for letter of the PCA rulebook and the envelopes we can legally push!

DCinVA · 01-18-2008, 11:12 AM

An impressive record indeed !!

Suggest you ignore my useless suggestion.

304065 · 01-18-2008, 12:09 PM

Chuck,

The "gorilla rule" in PCA is simple. . . if the book don't say it, save your after-tax dinero!

So . . . headers and exhaust, see what James Achard did on his with the Coast/Burns mufflers, very trick, light, quiet.

"Cup" airbox, basically just a frame.

Yes, you can "machine for balancing purposes" the crankshaft, but you will probably find that it's already balanced to 0.00007 foot-pounds anyway (the factory spec, I might be off a zero) and so it does no good to cut it.

Now, oil coolers are free, so you should add a second one. The engine makes its best power between 180 and 220F oil temperature, and good things happen on the low end of that. Particularly given the severe duty you can expect in AZ at high elevation, proper oil cooling is a must.

You can't change the chip.

You CAN get Ti valve retainers. Not sure they help.

A loose motor makes more power, so be careful changing things. If I were you I'd just do the top end, which as you know from having spent time in the aviation biz, means valves, guides, rings, rod bearings and the bolts.

On the bolts, I would definitely change to ARP, it's illegal but can save your bacon, and they weigh more than stock.

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

The weak link in the 3.2 engine is the crank oiling and rod bolts. Cross drill the crank for better 2/5 rod oil, cam feed restricters and oil flow mod for the pump to improve low end oiling. ARP rod bolts are a must. If you want to go crazy add forged rockers. (early 911) they offer a better rocker ratio and surface the heads for increased compression.

charleskieffner · 01-19-2008, 03:42 AM

john and henry...............muy thanks for your insight. this is exactly what i wanted to know. we have put a K&N and soon(very soon) a GHL full system. no chip no nothing else as per rulebook. updated every bushing, shocks, wevo shifter etc. and on and on and on.

with full tank race fuel PCA weighed us at #2820 at calif motor speedway. we have kept this to letter of the rules.

and its not solely for the track by any means. so still has alpine and amp stereo.

reason why we went to showroom stock is that there is a FINITE LIMIT to what we can do and what my pocket book can afford. yeah right?

anyway at 119K miles it aint new. it runs good but does burn some oil. jim patrick and myself have had long talks about this. jeff martin here has his cases apart and is building his 3.2 pretty damn stock with hopes of entering TOYO CUP. he mentioned ARP rod bolts as weak link also.

i feel a lot of guys could learn from this when building a motor for longevity. kinda like a menu of sorts. "mild to wild" menu if you catch my drift.

since we have chosen "mild" which has scared the living hell out of us at firebird/PIR/ and california motor speedway, we are laughing at others that build grenade motors in the never ending quest to scare themselves silly!

didnt want to split the cases, and felt that a top end would be enough. but as you have mentioned that seems like a "must do" for longevity.

the while yer in theres will include new clutch, g-50 upgrades, 1-2 synchro, aircraft fuel line on engine(jeremyd), new guides and all that you mentioned.

appreciate the insight.

charleskieffner · 01-19-2008, 04:05 AM

another interesting point jim patrick made.............."you have to win........before anyone will ever protest you!" and ask for a teardown.

we are never going to take first place. EVER! unless the entire field vaporizes itself!

and the fact that we are not going to run across the u.s. chasing 13 PCA national races. insanity pure and simple. off road ......a seven race series damn near killed us. mentally,physically, financially! and that was with a SCORE 1/2 1600 mouse motor!

so despite the ARP being illegal in class, you can kinda bet they will be used.

when we started this "showroom stock" quest a coupla years ago, we wrote down our biz plan and it was to attend 1-3 races a year. last year we did that, learned alot, spent alot, and still managed to smile about it.

so here we are in 2008 a little wiser, a little seasoned, a little more baked about what direction to take and what mistakes not to make.

bottomline we want to build a "BULLETPROOF/BOMBPROOF reliable as hell 3.2.

we did this with our 1600 all german parts SCORE motor and that motor never got sanded(K&N'S), never whimpered, never sniviled, and we had that sucker pinned for alot of miles in the most brutal of conditions. and we changed the oil,plugs,dist.cap,points every race and it wanted more until the day it went up in flames!

3.2 CAB · 01-19-2008, 11:14 AM

How much $$$$ does it cost for someone to "protest" in PCA?? If they find, or don't find?

charleskieffner · 01-20-2008, 02:27 AM

3.2 cab when we protested a car in 1/2 1600 class for walking away from us on a straight, my crew chief knew sumthang was not KOSHER! we coughed up the entry fee costs to protest him.

SHO ENOUGH..........clown had BORED OUT HIS RESTRICTOR PLATE! we had finished 2nd behind him and then took the first place due to his cheating lying evil ways!

going to SCCA races today and will ask my tech buddy there mike higgins from my old 77 datsoon 280-z race days what it costs now to protest.

935 lover · 01-20-2008, 03:17 AM

it a quart and a half in a thousand miles is not highly unusual . but with over a 100,000 thousand miles on the engine and you want to race t you should go through it carefuly to avoid serious high rpm problems. when i was building 935 engines for racing the rule of thumb was 32 to 40 hours topps before tear down. and we were not using nothing but kendall oil 50 wt. dave

charleskieffner · 01-20-2008, 03:38 AM

935 lover............yes my friend jeff martin on here also is a testament to that fact. his 87 3.2 roughly same miles as me, which he is readying for toyo cup is apart in his garage as i write. just received e last night from him. same crap as most of these 3.2's......smoke here smoke there. ran strong.

cracked case found some bottom end bearings worn, replacing all. ARP rod bolts, and found some intake and exhaust valves and guides worn.

they still run strong despite wear.

.........................right up til they FAIL!

and then ya got parts splattered to high hell and it then GETS REAL DAMN SPENDY! plus the fact ya got oil all over the track and all yer buddies are spinning into oblivion at your expense and theirs. which i got to witness at calif. motor speedway last april. what a mess........more like carnage!

anyway neither jeff or i want a grenade motor. as per rules, as per our wallets, as per our sanity. just want to have FUN! both of us willing to dump bucks up front to do it right first time. no cutting corners here.

as i mentioned to jeff in my e-mail to him. a stock 3.2 will scare the poo out of me and make me smile for weeks after coming off track. you really have to spend some mega track time to appreciate a stock motor and learn the car before wanting to build some monster motor w/mega horsepower. which really baffles me why some street guys go for these mega motors that you will never realize their potential on the street or highway at least legally and survive!

who was having the most fun yesterday at PIR SCCA races????? was it the mega buck vettes/mustangs???? open cockpit full race winged G?! DAMN-ITS??? no..........it was the showroom stocks, the 924's/944's? RX-7s! put helmet on, strap on, go race, come back to pits, never open hood, repeat. meanwhile mega buck vettes mustangs doing full blown repairs /entire body work removed between every race with swarms of wrenches to support them.

now you tell me whose having fun?????

ive been doing this for awhile(bikes buggies trucks 280 z) and i want to have FUN! not be a prisoner!