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Outlaw 911
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 50
Advice/Options Wanted

I have an 80 euro 911 with a relatively fresh (30K) mile 3.0 in it. It has SS heat exchangers and a BB muffler (great sound). The car runs very strong, especially for a NA car at 5000ft (Colorado).

I am planning a major HP boost in the future and I think I have a few options:

1 Take the 3.0L out to a 3.2L with new P/C, install cams and ditch the mechanical injection for a electronic injection.

2 Take the 3.0L to 3.4L, using a 3.2 crank and new P/C - and all the stuff listed in #1. Can the 3.2 crank be run in a 3.0 case.

3 Buy a 964/993 3.6L, sell the 3.0L and do a transplant.

4 Forced induction on the 3.0L - supercharger or turbo?

It seems silly to break open a low mileage 3.0 for #1 and #2, but I wanted to get the thoughts of the group. #3 has the least amount of brain damage - since Timmons and Patrick sell the conversion parts. I have not seen much support for aftermarket supercharger setups for the 3.0 so is #4 possible?

What are the throughts of the group?

Thanks

Outlaw 911

Last edited by Outlaw 911; 05-02-2008 at 08:09 PM..
Old 04-30-2008, 07:24 PM
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sudo apt-get purge 930
 
equality72521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brandon, FL
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I vote for number 3,... but then I'm not doing/paying for the work. I still think it would be bad ass though.
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:27 PM
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sudo apt-get purge 930
 
equality72521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Here's a transplant into an early car, not sure what the motor was. I think it was a 3.6, could be a 3.4 though.


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Mark 1979 930 Euro ***GONE AND DON'T MISS IT AT ALL***

"Worrying about depreciation on your car and keeping mileage down is like not ****ing your girlfriend so her next boyfriend finds her more appealing"
--clutch-monkey
Old 04-30-2008, 07:30 PM
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Max Sluiter
 
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I think doing a turbo would be cool. For your altitude, you would not need to open the motor as long as it was in spec. Put a small-housing turbo on there and run a few pounds of boost without lowering compression. This would spool up quick and bring back the zip.

Just don't go downhill ;-)
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:41 PM
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I beg to differ on the turbo your motor with original configuration idea. 1980 Euro SC motor's have 9.8 compression ratio. You could only run a couple of pounds of boost even at your altitude. Yes you can run a 3.2 crank in your case. Taking it out to 3.4 and using EFI would work great.

-Andy
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Old 04-30-2008, 09:44 PM
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"I have an 80 euro 911 with a relatively fresh (30K) mile 3.0 in it. It has SS heat exchangers and a BB muffler (great sound). The car runs very strong, especially for a NA car at 5000ft (Colorado)."

I'm assuming that the motor you are talking about is the original motor to the 1980 SC. It is clear that some mods have already been done to the motor but I'm unsure about the injection system you are saying you have below. The original injection system was not mechanical injection but CIS and this makes a huge difference. The CIS system can not handle anything but a mild cam grind whereas MFI can accomodate a wicked cam. Whit that in mind I will address the options you listed.

1 Take the 3.0L out to a 3.2L with new P/C, install cams and ditch the mechanical injection for a electronic injection.
this is a very good option and the power increase you will see by changing the P's&C's will be huge. For a street motor running on pump gas I would recommend 10:1 CR pistons and an "S" or GE 80 cams. Changing the fuel injection to a modern EFI system (like a TEC3) with crank fire ignition will make the engine run more fuel efficiently, generate more power and will accomodate extream elevation changes very well. With a system like this and your exhaust system you should see large gains in HP and Torque.

2 Take the 3.0L to 3.4L, using a 3.2 crank and new P/C - and all the stuff listed in #1. Can the 3.2 crank be run in a 3.0 case.
Similar to the comment on option 1 the additional displace ment will help boost HP and Torques values further but at additional cost. figure atleast an additional $5K over option 1

3 Buy a 964/993 3.6L, sell the 3.0L and do a transplant.
With this option I think all you can salvage from your 3.0 is the muffler. At any rate, a stock 964 motor is only going to give you ~15 to 20 more HP over your current set up. Torque will climb due to the larger displacement and better cams, etc. The 993 motor will give an increase in the range of ~50 to 55 HP with an even broader Torque curve. This is thanks to the better induction, exhaust and vario cam system. I do not recommend the 964 motor since there are some real problems with oil leaks on the early versions of this motor and the HP increase over your moter is not very much for the expense. A 993 motor swap will probably run you around $15 to $18K depending on the condition of it and the expense of converting you car to work with it. This means the oil coolers, electonics, labor etc.

4 Forced induction on the 3.0L - supercharger or turbo?

Wow you are ambitious. HP and Torque gains form this can be astronomical. You are still going to do some work on your motor to get the system to work well. The cheapest way to go would be a low PSI blower. I believe that the kits for these are around $10K but I don't know sing I have not really looked into it. Your motor will take extensive mods to get alot of reliable power out of a turbo set up.

You have some decient options to pick from but for my choice I would go with Option1. The later motors are great but they seem sluggish to me. The massive flywheel keeps them from spooling up as quickly as the should. The throttle response is very slow which makes heal and toe down shifting more difficult than it should be. You can help cure this by going with a Carrera Cup flywheel but that adds another $1.5K to the equation. Finally, an aluminum case 915 is a great transmission but it does have a limit. If you go too radical with your Power increase you may need to consider modifying your Transmission or replacing it with a G50.

Let us know which way you go.
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Old 05-01-2008, 08:25 AM
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Outlaw 911
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 50
Wow - great feedback guys- thank you.

The 3.0L is from a US SC - so it has the slightly higher CR. The injection is the CIS setup - yes, it is not the mechanical setup, like the early cars "S and E". I have never thought much of CIS/K because it does have limited "hot rod" capability.

Option 1 and 2 appeal to me because I will know exactly what is in the motor. I will build it fresh.

Option 3 on paper looks great - but like you said - the early 3.6 have issues and most of the 3.6 are started to get quite a few miles on them. I probably need to take it apart anyway - so I just spent a bunch on money on an engine that I will pull apart anyway? Doesn't make too much sense.

#4 is a pipe dream. I am wrapping up a ground up BMW S52 Turbo motor and holy smokes that was a TON of work. Everything has to be fabbed and I am not sure I want to go through that again.

Couple of questions:

1 - Can a 3.2 or 3.6 crank be run in a 3.0L case?
2 - What sort of HP can I expect from a 3.4L with cams, intake, electronic engine management - is 280 out of the question?
3 - Is there any advantage to the 84 - 88 intake manifold? I have heard it does not flow that well.
4 - Is the later 964/992 intake manifold better? Can it be used on a 3.0?

Again - thanks for the feedback.

Outlaw 911
Old 05-01-2008, 10:28 AM
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