Jaybird's official 2.7 rebuild thread - Page 4

Dan Morton · Dan Morton's Garage

wow looks like my project. Tearing down a 2.0 with 2.7 pistons. Where is CGarr? Did he do all your case work and did he inspect your pistons?

Thanks

jaybird840 · 03-17-2009, 12:25 PM

Yes, CGarr did all my case work, and has been an invaluable consultant on my project. I give him my highest recommendation. His username on this board is "CGarr". I had my pistons/cylinders checked by a local machine shop for roundness/taper. Holler if I can help in any way. It's the least I can do since so many on this board have been so helpful to me.

--Jay

jpnovak · 03-18-2009, 09:29 AM

Jay, let me know when you get to cam timing. I have all the tools should you need them. Also, cam timing is pretty simple once you understand the process.

Looks like you are doing a great job so far.

jaybird840 · 04-05-2009, 01:16 AM

OK,
I've gone to working the night shift at my day job

so I find myself awake until 7am on my days off. Makes for lots of time in the garage after the wife and kiddos crash. I installed my chain ramps today, and started (yes started) on my flywheel install. Just like the good book says, I put a tiny drop of red loctite on my new flywheel bolts and started tightening in increments of 15 lb/ft up to 110 lb/ft. Everything was going swimmingly until i jumped from 90 to 115 for the final torque. My engine stand does not have a lock to keep it from spinning.... I sure wish I thought of that before I got stuck with a rotating engine.

Well, I do the next logical thing and get myself a pry bar to wedge the damn thing so I can get the bolts tight. Long story short, I ended up rounding my tool, so now I can't get enough bite to get them to their final torque settings. Am I screwed? Can I go buy a new tool tomorrow (if I can find one on Sunday) and give them the final torque down, or will the red loctite prohibit them from tightening anymore? One is at 110, and the other five are at 90. What do I do, gurus?

Depressed in Austin,

--Jay

Aurel · Aurel's Garage

For the engine stand, can you modify it by drilling through its axle and use a big pin or screwdriver to lock it from rotating? That is how mine locks. As for the tool, if it is rounded, get a new socket not made in China. For the red loctite, I would burn it with a propane torch and start over again.

Dick Shift · Dick Shift's Garage

take the flywheel bolt tool to grinding wheel and carefully evenly grind of the damage tip and it will be as good as new.

jaybird840 · 04-06-2009, 01:44 PM

I guess my big question is whether or not I can just continue torquing, or do I need to remove the bolts, and start over, or (gulp) replace them. thanks!!!!!

jpnovak · 04-06-2009, 02:11 PM

Jay. I would remove the bolts and start the torque sequence over. If you used the "red" loctite or equivalent permanent threadlocker you will need to heat the bolts to get them to release.

If the end of your tool is buggered up and distorted, just grind the end off of it and have a fresh edge that will grip the nuts. This works well for Allen/Hex keys too.

If the flywheel bolts are buggered up and distorted, replace them as needed.

jaybird840 · 04-28-2009, 08:34 PM

OK guys,

I'm back on track with my rebuild thanks to Jamie Novak who loaned me a ring compressor. I'm preparing for piston/cylinder install, and want to check the math on my deck height before I start bolting stuff together. Wayne's book says that the piston can be slightly cocked in the bore, so I thought I'd count on the law of averages to bail me out. I measured the deck height in front of each of the four head studs with no base shim installed, and no rings on the piston. I added the measurements and divided by 4. I had no gross variations in measurement. That yielded a deck height of appx. 0.62mm. I ordered .50mm cylinder shims with my pelican rebuild kit. This would yield a total deck height of 1.12mm when completely installed. Is this safe for my low-compression 2.7RS pistons (8.5:1) running stock "E" cams? I think Wayne says 1.25mm to 1.5mm, but I have some room to spare on compression (I think). What says the group... Am I safe?

Cheers!

--Jaybird

jpnovak · 04-29-2009, 06:52 AM

Jay,

many performance engine builds will target 0.03" to 0.04" deck height (0.76 - 1.0 mm). I would add a .25mm base gasket and run the deckheight at .87mm (0.0343"). This will put you right in the middle of the acceptable range. At this deckheight you should have plenty of valve clearance considering the dome height of the RS pistons, the valve relief pocket depth and the lower lift of the E cam compared to S (or bigger).

Did you get the heads chamfered at the edge when they were rebuilt? If so, Then I would consider running an even lower deck height. The chamfer will eliminate the detonation pocket at the outside edges of the piston/cylinder/head interface.

Check out Grady's description here:
9.8 or 10.1?

If the heads are chamfered the sharp edge has been removed and you can visualize the ability to run a tighter clearance.

jaybird840 · 04-29-2009, 12:22 PM

I am about to mate the pistons with the cylinders, and discover this...

I don't know if it was carelessness on behalf of the machine shop when they cleaned them, or I was careless with storage. Either way, I am where I am. I would assume this nick would score the cylinder wall? What is the best way to address it? My thought would be to dress it down flush with a fine swiss file. What say the masters? Onward with the rebuild....

--Jaybird

cgarr · cgarr's Garage

Use an American file and you will be fine, that's a fine file. What Cams are you going to be running?

jaybird840 · 04-29-2009, 12:58 PM

Craig,

I'll be running stock "E" cams done by John Dougherty. What are your thoughts on the deck height? As always... thanks!!!!

--jay

jpnovak · 04-29-2009, 01:00 PM

Agreed, Just smooth down and match the radius. Also, make sure there is not a sharp edge on the top. It could become a later hot-spot for detonation, especially on the outside edge of the combustion chamber.

jaybird840 · 04-29-2009, 01:12 PM

Ok, got it smoothed out...

Off to the races!!!!

jaybird840 · 05-01-2009, 10:23 AM

Well gentlemen, I'm moving along. Thanks to Jamie Novak, I have the pistons inserted in the cylinders. Once again, having the correct tools makes all the difference (thanks Jamie!!!) The ring compressor worked like a charm, and all the pistons and rings just slid right in.

So, I started unboxing my heads last night to get them cleaned and prepped. Unfortunately, I found a nick (most likely from shipping) in the edge of one of the heads. I've PM'ed CGarr to talk about the fix. I think 8 mos. later is a bit late to file a claim on the shipper

. Once again, a good reason to unbox and inspect everything when it arrives. Photo attached....

Oh yeah.... Jamie, is this the chamfer you were looking for in the head that would factor into deck height????

More later after I get the pistons and cylinders installed.....

Jay

jpnovak · 05-01-2009, 11:04 AM

Jay,

That nick is outside the sealing surface and should not cause any issues. Again, remove any sharp or protruding areas with the file.

Yes, that is the chamfer I was referring to. good job Craig!

btw, if you want to CC the heads and Pistons let me know. IT doesn't take long to measure them and then you will have an accurate CR.

jaybird840 · 05-01-2009, 12:18 PM

Jamie,
sounds like a plan to me! I'll shoot you a PM for the details....

Dan Morton · Dan Morton's Garage

Looks like you're making progress.

I ended up sending the case, crank, P's&C's to Ollies. The cams were reground to E spec. My pistons ended up being 2.8 RSR with 2.7 cylinders bored to fit. The case (2.0) has some warpage so ollies is working on that and will also rework the studs. I'm still a few weeks away from where you are.

jaybird840 · 05-04-2009, 11:56 AM

While I'm thinking about it, how do I properly test my oil thermostat? Wayne's book says to put it on a hot plate and watch to see if it opens. I put mine in a skillet on the stove, and watched it for awhile. It never moved. When it got hot to the touch, I removed it in fear of damaging it. Also, at ambient temp, the slits on mine appear to be about halfway open. it would seem that this would allow a bit of oil to flow past the sensor that controls the thermostat. Thoughts?? Thanks!