Low budget 2.2T rebuild Qs

[deathpunk dan]

Planning for inevitable rebuild of my car's engine, and am about to buy Wayne's rebuilding book.

I've read a bunch of threads on the matter and know that the smart money is sending putting the thing on a pallet & shipping it to Supertec or similar.

However, I'm also intrigued by those who have scrounged parts here and there on the forum, ebay, from pp and other vendors & have done their own 'budget' rebuilds.

I'm well aware of 'while-you-are-in-there-itis' manifesting itself during rebuilds as well.

Let's say a poor schmoe like me had a car that needed some engine work, but did not need the case split.

What can be done in this case? Are the p/c E spec sets seen on ebay any good? Or reuse existing steel liner Cs with diff pistons?

What about headwork? Can 2.0 or 2.4 T heads be used? I only ask because I see reconditioned heads come up for sale from time to time and the ability to use those from other displacements widens selection considerably.

Can T cams be re-ground to E spec or just buy someone else's E/Solex cams?

Your .02 is appreciated so long as you are not scathing...

[viejopatron]

I'm doing this on my '71. It's been fun, expensive and is taking a long time. Think long about balancing DIY, sending out and the old time-money equation. PM me and I'll get into scathing.

[sww914]

Obviously the best thing to do with an engine is to just send it out to a professional who specializes in air cooled Porsche engines and pay him to rebuild or replace everything that is worn. That said, it is possible to build a good running Porsche engine yourself using a selection of well matched, still within tolerances used parts. Of course any associated bearings, rings (except for in Alusil cylinders maybe) and gaskets should be replaced with new parts.
Will it be as good? Last as long? Probably not.
Will it run well and be a gratifying experience? Yes. If you buy the books, study them, study this forum, and work carefully.
Will it be cheap? Hell no. What part of "Porsche" made us think cheap?
I'm in a boat similar to yours. I've built quite a few of these engines for others with better checkbooks than mine, but now that it's my checkbook that we're dealing with I'm trying to maximize results and minimize spending without cutting too many corners.
It's a leaky little boat.

[BK911]

What makes you think you need a rebuild at 71k miles? Do a leakdown. I've seen these engines run well with almost 20% leakdown across the cylinders. Drive it until you HAVE to rebuild it.

If you want to do a budget rebuild, only by taking it apart will you know which parts NEED to be replaced.

[Wayne 962]

The 2.2T motor is probably the least valuable of any 911 motor out there. It has just a terribly long list of things that make it not really worth it to modify. This list is in my book, not exactly sure where, but there are six things that make working with the 2.2T engine difficult:

- Zenith carbs
- Magnesium case
- Smaller T heads
- T pistons
- Non-reusable cylinders
- T cams

I recommend that 2.2T owners take their original engine, and stick it in the corner of their garage, and then go out and build a high compression 3.0L engine. The costs will be similar, and you'll increase the value of the car, and increase your driving experience too!

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by krobb

I like the idea of a high compression 3.0L but I am also having this delimna. I know a 2.2T engine is not very powerful but I can live with this since I do not race or autocross. I have noticed that 2.2T parts are easily found on ebay for pretty cheap and I was wondering if it is still a better idea to build the 3.0L engine or would the stock 2.2T motor be alot cheaper to rebuild? I was thinking that I would first have to invest money in a 3.0L core engine and I suppose a new transmission too just to get started. The only change I would make to the 2.2T engine would be a set of E cams. I just know that HP is usually expensive and the while you're in there itis may be too great a temptation to build the 3.0L engine for me. I was also wondering that since the 2.2T engine has limited power, would it be possible to use some aftermarket parts like clutches and still have reliabilaty? any thoughts?

You can slap something together, and it might work well. Then again, it might fall apart. In general cheapo rebuilds on the early 2.0 and 2.2 T motors tend to work better than the later motors because these early motors are pretty low powered and don't stress things too much.

-Wayne

[deathpunk dan]

Ok
Point of clarification - I don't think my engine needs a rebuild yet per se. However, I want to be prepared when the time comes. So, I was thinking of starting to piece together the major components and set them aside for future use.

I also didn't want to do a super cheap used parts special rebuild, more like a 'sensible bargains' on new and or reconditioned items. I know the 2.2T is a lousy base for a hot rod motor, but I think ~150 hp would be plenty for driving to the coffee shop etc.

Hence my interest in the typical E pistons/cams setup.

I actually found a low mile T motor with a 2.7 crank, solex cams etc for short money and might try to buy that instead for an inexpensive spare.

[BK911]

I'll be making this decision soon with a 70T Targa I just picked up. I see two choices:

1. Use the stock 2.2T engine with E cams and a 2.4 crank and rods. The 2.2T pistons with a 2.4 crank will produce a 2.4T engine with >2.4S compression. With the E cams, or even the T cams, will make an awesome street engine.

2. Like Wayne says, put the original engine on a pallet and build up another engine. This choice has limitless possibilities and also cost more $s. I would stick with a 2.2 or 2.4 just to be semi-period correct, but a nice street 3.x is a good possibility too.

[berettafan]

good discussion. i see i'm not the only guy wondering what i'll do when 'that day' comes. i've ridden in a 3.0 CIS early car with a trick suspension (Rallyjon's old car) and it pulled awful hard.

right now i'm liking the idea of a 2.7 w/ webers or a 3.0 w/ the CIS removed and webers/cams installed. Wayne's engine options are fun to read.

[timc]

Dan, What makes you think you need a rebuild with only 71k on a 2.2T motor? Those things were bullet proof as they were so under stressed as stated above. I've had several of them that just ran and ran, several hundred k easily. Keep driving it and save for a 3.0, then store the OEM engine for originality purposes if needed. They are like an old beetle motor, you can't kill them!

[relayswitcher]

Wayne, Re 70-71 911T motors. I emailed Tom Woodford a few weeks ago ( believe you know each other) about a 911T engine I picked up last February from an old guy moving to NMex and had a bad back and gave up on ever rebuilding it. As you can see it's complete with transmission and Zenith 40s. Tom said to just part it out and sell the transmission separate. The idea being I could get more money from this project that way rather than a complete rebuild. I have a 3.0 in my Targa that was build by Don Kravig in Riverside,,, god rest his soul. I have it out of the car and working on a rattle noise I'm hearing..... (see user name " Relayswitcher" posted 9-10-08 1015pm) Anyway, I really don't need the 911T engine for myself, but thought it would be good to rebuild and sell to someone who wanted it for originality, but frankly you guys seem bent on our trashing the motor and stick it in a corner. I realize 3.0 or more reliable, but is it really that worthless to rebuild an 911T and sell it to someone who needs it complete with a transmission?
I'm told it's because the iron cylinders are a problem, but if they check out okay then what would be the problem. Zenith 40s aren't Webbers and horsepower isn't 200 but for some people it doesn't matter. Like the guy who said....as long as it gets you to the coffee shop.... isn't that all that matters. And I've never been a led foot either...even in my 3.0 Targa.... 1 speeding tkt in 20 years and that was from some redneck cop in Tahachapi.... and on mother's day....the rat.
So I would really like to hear some positive things that can be done with these motors and what to watch for on a tear down and rebuild in particular..... if you would please. Here are some photos of the engine... and thinking on it now.... the seller said it sat for almost 12 years in his garage, but I'm assuming it won't run as is, but I'm also thinking the seals are probably all cracked by now and a rebuild is inevitable. Appreciate a response, Wayne. Regards, Relayswitcher / JOSH

[relayswitcher]

DeathPunkDAN, Hope you don't mind my having left the above message here. I meant it to be helpful to you in some way as well. Glad to help you with any photos or questions about my 911T motor as you decide what to do with yours. 3.0L is definately the way to go. I heard that the first ones from '78 79' years were most dependable. I have an 82 3.0 SC engine in my '76 Targa and have loved it until recently with a rattle I'm trying to find the source of. See, nothing is completely guaranteed, but it has been about 5 years since it was built professionally. Regards, Relayswitcher/ JOSH

[silverc4s]

My first 911, over 30 years ago now, was a 1969 911T Targa, bone stock, with a freshly rebuilt engine at about 100K miles. I loved that little car and had loads of fun with it in northern CA in the 80's era of not too much crowding, cheap fuel, etc.

In time I arrived at a point where I was in need of more power, this being basically a 110 hp engine and all, so I started looking at the options to do this. I chose a freshly rebuild 72 911E 2.4 liter long block, put all my externals on it, used my early flywheel, clutch, 901 gearbox, webers (bigger venturies and jets), Heat Exchangers, alternator, etc.

I ended up with a good 2.0T longblock in my garage, and a TOTALLY TRANSFORMED TARGA. This car went from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde overnight, and still looked and drove like a normal 911 in most circumstances, even running on REGULAR fuel.

The cost was the same or less than anything I could have done to get more oomph out my T engine, and was far more satisfying in the long run. Still had the stock block if ever needed.

I think this is what everyone is trying to say to you...

[Flieger]

If you need new pistons and cylinders, you could go ahead and upgrade to Nickies and make the motor like an S but use T cams.