Oil Change Discovery

[madsonryan]

I found these bits in the sump screen cover during my most recent oil change. Anybody have any idea what this could be? I'm guessing this doesn't look good.

[Flieger]

Well, there is an oil-pressure-relief piston/spring assembly, I think the ball bearing is a check valve for it. Is one part a length of chain or is it a chain ramp? Does not look good either way. How was the engine running just before you did the oil change?

Maybe someone got the oil-bypass mod machine work wrong.

[Walt Fricke]

Will a magnet pick all of those bits up? If not, maybe rearrange and rephotograph?

Put something in for size reference. A dime? A ruler?

The spring-like bit maybe could be part of a piston oil squirter? If one of those popped out of place, your oil pressure should be way down, I think.

[Walt Fricke]

Oh, and what year is this 911?

[Peterfrans]

could this be a piston squirter

[Flieger]

Now that I see that is a paper towel, I get a better sense of scale. The piston squirter would be consistent wth the ball bearing, sleeve, and spring seen in the photo.

[madsonryan]

I will put in a dime or something in for scale and rephotograph. This is a 2.0 L aluminum case engine. It was fitted with piston squirters and the oil bypass mod. It was running fine before the oil change, however I did notice that the oil pressue was running a little lower than usual. The sump magnet didn't pick up anything, it was all stuck in the sump screen. Next I will tear into the oil filter and see if there is anything in there.

[MBruns]

It looks like an oil squirter to me, ends up being a big internal oil leak !
Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

[WERK I]

Originally Posted by MBruns

It looks like an oil squirter to me, ends up being a big internal oil leak !
Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

+1 Yep, that's a squirter alright.

[Walt Fricke]

The spring-like part should be attracted by a magnet (or could a spring be stainless?). The squirter also has a ball bearing in it. The rest of it, I think, is all aluminum. The squirters face the bottom of the piston, so if one is shot out it could easly get mangled as it bounces back and falls down past the crank throws and rods into the sump.

For biggish metalic bits I think the power of the oil being sucked through the screen is greater than the magnet in the drain. It does a better job of holding fine shavings which form a kind of grey paste.

If this is a squirter you will have to pull the case apart to replace it. I think you'd be OK driving the car onto or off a trailer, or 50' into a garage. But nothing more. And, while in there, to pien the other squirters into place a little more, just to be sure.

What I can't give a decent guess at are those smallish black pieces. They look plasticy, which is why you should take a magnet and touch them. Then a knife to see if non-magnetic metal (like aluminum that somehow got black) or a plastic. The chain ramps are the most likely source of plastic bits. Each has little "grippers" in one of their holes to help center it, and those are fairly fragile. Not a big deal to replace ramps.

[madsonryan]

Thanks for all the input so far. Any guess as to why a squirter would come out like that other than faulty installation? I had a reputable local shop install them so I’m surprised one failed. This engine has about 2,000 miles on it, probably 1/3 of that on track. It looks like the repair is a complete tear down. Since this engine is not that old would the recommendation be to replace all bearings as well, using the theory that it’s better to be safe than sorry, or is that overkill?

[WERK I]

Originally Posted by madsonryan

Thanks for all the input so far. Any guess as to why a squirter would come out like that other than faulty installation? I had a reputable local shop install them so I’m surprised one failed. This engine has about 2,000 miles on it, probably 1/3 of that on track. It looks like the repair is a complete tear down. Since this engine is not that old would the recommendation be to replace all bearings as well, using the theory that it’s better to be safe than sorry, or is that overkill?

In the pic below, is the outlined area in green cast aluminum pieces? If so, could it be that the area around the squirter failed allowing the squirter to fall out?

[kenikh]

They are known to fall out without extremely religious staking when installed.

[lane912]

Originally Posted by kenikh

They are known to fall out without extremely religious staking when installed.

that sux, why not thread them?

[4sd911]

Originally Posted by madsonryan

Thanks for all the input so far. Any guess as to why a squirter would come out like that other than faulty installation? I had a reputable local shop install them so I’m surprised one failed. This engine has about 2,000 miles on it, probably 1/3 of that on track. It looks like the repair is a complete tear down. Since this engine is not that old would the recommendation be to replace all bearings as well, using the theory that it’s better to be safe than sorry, or is that overkill?

The motor should only need to be disassembled to a short block at max, once the piston(s) are off the new valve can be installed so long as machine work isn't needed. If you can find out which one fell out only that side of the motor needs to be disassembled. I'd bet it got caught it the chains, look there for damage.

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by lane912

that sux, why not thread them?

Would lock-tite work on non threaded squirters? It would, no? As an additional safety, combined with the usual way of fixing them in the case?
My case is out for piston squirter replacement....

[Peterfrans]

When I changed out mine, I used a loctite product designed for bonding cilindrical fitting (I believe it was 603) and staked them. They are still firmly set in the case.

[tadd]

Bearing retainer, the green stuff. Wicks in after installation. IIRC, its the same ratings as the red.

t

[Walt Fricke]

I think Loctite Sleeve (or bearing) retainer, which is green, is not the same as the wicking Threadlocker. The green retainer stuff is stronger than red. Of course, the company may have changed colors over the years.

Proper staking is as good as you can get. My concern about adhesives is getting it too well ensconsed - then how do you pull it if you want to clean the passageways or replace it? Yes, it is not a normal replacement item on a normal rebuild, so maybe one ought not to count that as a disadvantage.

On the other hand, the clever suggestion that it can be replaced without splitting the case might mean adding adhesive just to the replacement would make more sense, given that you would be working around the rod.

While I don't quite see how this would get into the chain gears, given its mangled state that makes sense. I'd vote for the #4 journal web in that case - the nearest to where the chains are. If some of those bits are plastic from a ramp or ramps, that would fit the picture. Ramps can be replaced without splitting the case, too.

[AlfonsoR]

Did the builder not warranty their work? It might be worth a shot to pursue some recourse through them.