This bearing... Still crap in my oil?

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

So I spun a rod bearing late racing season. Obviously it filled the oil system full of crap. I scrambled to clean and reassemble the engine to finish the season.

Since I had to tear down and put a better rod in (I didn't balance the replacement well as the services were not available in the timeframe we needed) I had to reopen the case to do it right this winter.

While I thought I had cleaned everything well, it looks like I did not... Can you pros look at this crank bearing and confirm (or deny) that this splotch near the oil journal is from dirt/debris? The first and last bearing showed the most significant issues with less showing the father into the engine you get.

THanks. Sorry for the bad picture but I think you can get the idea of what's there...

Steve@Rennsport · 01-13-2010, 10:20 AM

Chris,

I need a much better picture to offer anything constructive.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Here are a few. The most damage was to the large thrust bearing close to the flywheel. This one showed the next worst with some copper showing in that area just below the oil journal plus some radial wear in the babbit surface.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

This bearing was on the crank closest to the nose bearing. There was only 4-5 hours on this bearing. Thanks for the look-see Steve!

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Here's a closeup of the damage.

Steve@Rennsport · 01-13-2010, 03:48 PM

Chris,

GREAT pics, thank you!! Well done, Sir.

Looks like FOD and a little corrosion. Your case, crank, and entire oiling system must be disassembled and cleaned properly, otherwise you will continue to have "encore performances".

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Steve,

Thanks for the time. I am taking EVERYTHING down now. I'm doing the oil lines, coolers, crank, pulling the freeze plugs on the case, cam sprayers, the works. It's all packed up and ready to go get tanked/ultrasonic cleaned.

I sort of suspected I might find this considering the rush job I had to do on this engine to finish the season. So for future generations. This is what happens when you don't clean REALLY REALLY well.

Carrerax · 01-13-2010, 04:29 PM

Ok, What is FOD?

Flieger · Flieger's Garage

Foreign Object Damage

Carrerax · 01-13-2010, 05:01 PM

uh....I knew that

Mark Henry · 01-13-2010, 06:53 PM

Also look at the wash board effect on the bearing.
That is caused by hitting a rev limiter, most likely you're using it as a shift indicator.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Hmm... I have a soft-rev limiter (Electromotive) and don't recall hitting it as that's what caused this issue in the first place... Are you SURE that's what causes this pattern?

dgmark · dgmark's Garage

I think you already know the answer to your question, Clean that baby up.
The spalding next to the oil hole is very interesting. it dose not appear to be from
the FOD in the engine, it dose not follow the rotation of the rod.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

I was doing some reading on causes of bearing failure and that spalling is suggested to be caused by entrenched or trapped air bubbles in some cases and fatigue in the copper backing which seems strange. Note that I only saw this damage on the one bearing which was near the rod that wasn't balanced completely.

The washboard pattern was on ALL bearings to some degree or another.

I think I need to just clean really well, check the oil pump, and then do some regular oil analysis.

MBruns · 01-14-2010, 06:46 AM

The washboarding is on most all of the newer glyco bearings, the quality of those from the aftermarket have gone down hill, it looks like they cut them out with a jig saw, if you look at some of the mains they have what looks like a drip coming from the oil hole (that you can feel) The orig. bearings from the dealer are made by glyco but are to a much better quality standard, for example the bearings have been tested with a thickness guage as it leaves two visable lines in the coating that the aftermarket does not have. Its sad when you have to order two sets to pick and choose enough to make one set, Lately we just get them from Porsche

Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Mike,

Thanks. So that spalling might be from a high spot on the main bearing caused by localized overheating? Geez I hate to think that I'll have to hand inspect each bearing, but if that's what it takes....

(Hey it was good meeting you at PRI BTW).

JFairman · 01-14-2010, 08:41 AM

The faint washboarding wear on the surface reminds me of a board that was fed through a wood planer too fast.

I've heard that the new Glyco rod and main bearings are not as good as they used to be and the ones from the dealer are better more than once now.

It's frustrating and depressing. Where are they made now?
Or are all the ones made after a holiday shut down or on a monday or a friday seperated and sold to the aftermarket..

Mark Henry · 01-14-2010, 09:13 AM

The wash boarding looks just like rev limiter damage (loading/unloading) but if it's a QC problem I stand corrected.

The QC issue really sucks when you think about the fact that a Glyco VW (old) beetle set of bearings, that are almost exactly the same, cost $30 retail. Another sale that our host loses because I'll also try the dealer on this.
Thanks for the heads up.

Steve@Rennsport · 01-14-2010, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFairman

I've heard that the new Glyco rod and main bearings are not as good as they used to be and the ones from the dealer are better more than once now.

It's frustrating and depressing. Where are they made now?
Or are all the ones made after a holiday shut down or on a monday or a friday seperated and sold to the aftermarket..

Mike is absolutely right. Glyco's quality has really slipped and the best bearings are found at the Dealer due to PAG's QC checks and standards. We no longer use Glyco rod and main bearings sourced from the aftermarket.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

I have an account with a local dealer, guess I'll get them from there. Thanks for the tips guys!