Rebuilding a '79

kerthunk · 07-04-2010, 09:14 AM

I recently got my '79 running after spending about a year working on everything else on it. The car shows 186k miles on the odometer of which I put on less that 100 of them. I've been planning to at least give the engine a major service and tune-up. After getting it running, I drove it for a couple hundred miles and then took it over to John Walker for a compression/leakdown test:

1: 145/12
2: 145/10
3: 145/11
4: 140/15
5: 155/15
6: 155/12

The engine seemed to be running ok. A bit of a high idle on cold start, but it seemed to settle down after a bit. John Walker was a bit concerned about the amount of debris in/on the engine and said that it could definitely use a good servicing (old spark plugs and such). The shift shaft seal has been leaking a bit and when I got the car back home, it was bleeding out. So, I decided that now would be a good time to pull the engine and see what I can do with it. Did I mention that I have never worked on an engine before?

Well, I got the engine down to the long block...this thing is amazingly filthy! I had a good 1/4" of mud on the top of the engine that I have already scrapped off prior to taking these pics.

Now I am at the point where I'm not sure how much farther I'm going to strip it down. It definitely needs a thorough cleaning.

I have acquired the following things for the engine so far:

SSIs and the needed oil lines (I'm going to keep the blower motor in the engine bay).
Sach's Power Clutch
Carerra Tensioners
Turbo Valve covers
fresh Mounts
all the small stuff for a good tune-up (air/oil/fuel filters, spark plugs, etc).

I'm looking to refresh the engine and give it a few reliability tweaks and simple performance enhancements. This is going to be a street car with maybe a touch of autox and DE thrown in.

The engine has been mostly dry with no real leaks, but maybe it is just the engine filth that is keeping the oil in.

I snapped one exhaust stud getting the engine apart, but it broke off just under the nut, so it shouldn't be too hard to extract. I'm thinking that it would be best to put in a fresh full set of studs.

No barrel nuts fell out from the head stud holes, so I'm still hoping for the best there. I need to cut into the engine further to try the magnetic test for dilivar head studs.

I'm wondering if I should re-ring the pistons. I guess I first need to figure out if I have nikasil cylinders.

I know that I will probably regret asking this, but is there anything else I should be doing? Do you guys think I need to split the case? I'm looking for a bit of guidance as to where to go from here. I want to do the rebuild myself, but am figuring that I will be sending some stuff out to get worked on professionally.

YTNUKLR · YTNUKLR's Garage

First question: budget?

That will determine everything you do from here out. I go either all the way and do it right, or I don't do it.

I think you should either go all the way, split the case, replace all the standard wear items, check and replace everything out of spec. You already have it out and you can just get it over with.

OR,

if it runs O.K. and you don't want to spend $6k or so right now, I would hose it down with degreaser and a pressure washer (seal the ports very securely), tune it up (the CIS, mainly), and that's it. Soon enough it will need work, or the head studs will break, or the valve guides will start allowing serious oil consumption, or something will happen that necessitates servicing the engine with a full drop and at least a partial teardown. In the meantime, get it running as well as you can -- there's nothing terminally "wrong" with it right now -- and give it a nice Italian tune-up and some long road trips to improve the sealing of the rings.

To me, it doesn't make sense to "just" do a top-end. The majority of the cost (75% at least) is taken up in doing the heads, pistons and cylinders and refurbishing all that top-end stuff. The bottom end on these 3.0/3.2 engines is really stout, and basically you would need to polish the crank and get a new set of bearings. So, you spend the majority of the money it would cost to get a completely rebuilt engine with new bearings, and then you put this dirty old lunk right back in your car. Then you get to live with said dirty old lunk, or spend even more money than you would have initially, to take out the thing, tear it down again and do the bottom end.

Just do it right the first time or don't bother and enjoy the thing.

[Except wash it; that is a MUST-DO]

kerthunk · 07-04-2010, 10:25 PM

Thanks for the input! I'm definitely a do it right the first time kind of guy. As for the budget, I'm figuring that I will end up paying whatever it costs to do it right. As the costs increase, it is just going to make it take longer to get it put back together.

304065 · 07-05-2010, 04:40 AM

. . do it. . . clean it. . . tear it down to the case and rebuild it! You know you want to!

Packy · Packy's Garage

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought removing dirt from the engine with the intake taken off is a no no. you probably are already dumping tons of crap into the intake ports - not good. Now, I would think you need to at least take the heads off and make sure everything is clean. Otherwise, like YTNUKLR said, you're gonna have to rebuild all of this sooner than later and most likely sooner because you have 180+ miles on it and now you have crap in the combustion chamber.

kerthunk · 07-09-2010, 11:43 AM

Packy, I was planning on taking the heads off anyway, so I wasn't too worried about some potential dirt in there (I also plugged the ports with some rags).

I dug a little deeper into the engine last night. Pulled the cam tower and heads for 1-3. I wanted to check for Dilivar studs and figure out wether I had Alusil or Nikasil cylinders. The exhaust studs are definitely not magnetic like the intake ones, so I'm guessing Dilivar. I also couldn't detect any magnetism inside the cylinder and I counted 10 fins, so I'm guessing I have Alusil. I also noticed that I had a slight bit of pitting on a couple of lobes on each cam, so I'll probably need to get them worked on a bit. I'm kind of bummed about all that since I am looking at probably needing to throw a good hunk of $ at the engine now.

I've read a bunch of the threads about re-ringing the alusils, so I'm thinking that getting some new pistons and cylinders is probably on the menu. So, of course then comes the whole "if I'm going to get new cylinders, why not just turn the engine into a 3.2ss?"

Basically, this car is going to be 90+% street, so I want to make sure I can run on pump gas. I would prefer to keep the CIS setup as dropping another $3k for PMOs doesn't sound like a ton of fun. Probably keep it single plug as well. I want to put together a reliable engine that can provide a fun kick in the pants when I stomp on the gas.

I've been spending the morning drooling while looking at the Nickies website and reading every 3.2ss thread I could find. I have also been wondering about going to an even larger displacement like the 100mm Nickies. Of course, having never rebuilt an engine before, all this is just numbers and theory to me.

Any ideas on how to spend my money?

kenikh · 01:55 PM

Man, I don't crack a 7R case unless I have to. Unbolting any mag case requires resizing EVERY time, regardless of how it "specs out". Herr Weiner will back me up on this 100%.

A buddy and I are doing a "ghetto build" just like this. Long sitting running 7R US Carrera motor...simply cleaning up, reringing (Nikasil barrels), Notch the CIS pistons for Solex cams, deck the heads for a bump to 9:1 CR and done.

If it blows, so what...it was cheap and fun while it lasted.

BTW, the utlimate thread on notching pistons on the CHEAP:
http://fordmuscle.com/forums/engine-articles/484906-another-technique-piston-notching.html

kerthunk · 07-09-2010, 02:48 PM

kenikh,

Isn't a SC case (930/04) aluminum and not magnesium?

kenikh · 07-09-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerthunk

kenikh,

Isn't a SC case (930/04) aluminum and not magnesium?

Nyerf...duh. '79 is an SC case. Please consider my previous post as an out of context observation, as related to this post.

Bainbridge, eh? My in-laws live just past Winged Point.

kerthunk · 07-09-2010, 03:01 PM

I'll let you know when I'm putting the engine back in the car. I bet it would be a great evening to visit your in-laws!

kenikh · 07-09-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerthunk

I'll let you know when I'm putting the engine back in the car. I bet it would be a great evening to visit your in-laws!

Ditto on both counts! It's a great night for sitting on the deck looking over Lake Sammamish, though, so will be staying home and away from the ferry line.

304065 · 07-09-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenikh

BTW, the utlimate thread on notching pistons on the CHEAP:
Another Technique for Piston Notching. - FordMuscle.com Forums

Yeah, why spend an hour removing the pistons when you can notch them in the cylinders? This is conduct that shocks the conscience.

kenikh · 07-09-2010, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 304065

Yeah, why spend an hour removing the pistons when you can notch them in the cylinders? This is conduct that shocks the conscience.

Ah, Herr Cramer, you also discount the pain of acquiring a piston vise after removal, setting up the angle of the vise on a mill (IF one even has access to one), acquiring a cutter of the proper head diameter (big = not cheap) setting the origins for the cutter, then plunging each piston.

Or having to pay someone to it then having to wait...

Eagledriver · 07-09-2010, 07:00 PM

I wouldn't rule out the Alusil's without measuring the pistons and rings. Several times I've re-used the old rings because they measured better than the new rings. You might just clean them up and measure them. If they are within the wear limit you can just keep them all in the same position/cylinder and re-use. Alusil's seem to last a long time, just like Nickasil.

-Andy

304065 · 07-10-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenikh

Ah, Herr Cramer, you also discount the pain of acquiring a piston vise after removal, setting up the angle of the vise on a mill (IF one even has access to one), acquiring a cutter of the proper head diameter (big = not cheap) setting the origins for the cutter, then plunging each piston.

Or having to pay someone to it then having to wait...

Fair enough, but why not at least pull the pistons and rods to clean out the inevitable schmutz (technical German term) that will work its way between the slug and the bore?

kenikh · 07-10-2010, 01:45 PM

You would do this work at TDC, thus you can control schmutz.

Fill the cyl w/ oil, et al, to catch the schmutz. When done grinding, remove the head, flush with brake cleaner, descend the piston and inch, flush...lather rinse repeat. Clean.

If really worried, you can lather moly grease as a catch barrier between the rings and open air.