Engine with most bang for the buck....

[johnman001]

What would be the best engine to build (best bang for the buck)?

The use of the engine would be DE / track work.

I want 300 HP or more and I want reliability.


I have a 1983 factory stock 930 engine to start with.

The engine will be going in a fully prepared 914-6 track car.



Should I leave the engine stock and keep it a turbo or should I build it into something normally aspirated?



What weak spots (other than the connecting rod bolts and head studs) are there to address?


I know this is kind of an open ended question and difficult to answer, but I would like to see other peoples opinions to compare them with my own.

Thanks for taking the time.

[johnsjmc]

Your expected power levels are easily obtainable with the turbo engine you have already. I would think it would be hard to fit in the required intercooler and other parts into a 914. The other weak point will be a transmission able to handle 300 hp plus turbo torque. I am not very knowledgable with 914 construction details

[johnman001]

Please don't worry about fitment or transmission selection.

That is all the easy stuff.

{just for the record, the trans, it will either be a 915 5-speed or a 915 4-speed (out of a turbo). either with a flipped ring gear of course}



I was considering bumping it up to 3.4 and keeping it a turbo, or making it into a 3.5 and going normally aspirated......


At one point I was considering a short stroke 2.8. (can a 2.0/2.2 crank fit a 3.3 case?)

[Walt Fricke]

John

If I had a 3.3 turbo, and wanted 300 hp but wanted to spend a minimum of $ (relatively speaking), I'd tweak the turbo I had and call it good.

The only way I can think of to use the case you have for a short stroke 2.8 is to buy one of Henry Schmidt's aftermarket 66mm cranks with the 9 bolt flywheel mounting. I don't know if you have to rob a bank to pay for those, but I'd expect pretty close to that. It may be that some factory race cranks (962?) would do that, but you said bang for buck.

The other way to get to 300 is to use a 964 or 993 motor. Not super hard to get 300 hp there.

There is also a nice discussion (or two) right here by a guy who is getting 300 hp from a 3.0. If you wanted an NA motor, you could buy some J&E pistons to get, say, 10.3/1 CR, twin plug your heads, pick the right cam, add PMO 50s, and you should be about there.

Do you have our host Wayne's book on the 911 engine? It has a discussion of various engine combinations. Covers a lot of the waterfront, and if you don't have it you should get it.

[Henry Schmidt]

If 300 hp in a 914 is your goal and you already own a 3.3 930 engine the biggest challenge will be an exhaust system and intercooler that will fit the mid engine configuration.
It just so happens that I have just such a system. I ran this system back in the 90s in the 914 From Hell and it was the ultimate "E" ticket. If you're interested I have other pictures that I can send you.

[johnman001]

Now that is a nice looking exhaust.

I agree that this would be the challenge if I keep it a stock turbo engine.

Henry, I am interested in more pictures!

[johnman001]

I agree that keeping it basically a stock 3.3 and freshening it up with new bearings, rings, rods, bolts etc. should give me what I am looking for.

If I do this, is there any easy mods to give slightly better performance?

Once upon a time I had heard that SC cams would wake up an otherwise stock turbo. Later I had heard of using other cams to do the same thing.

What cams would be recommended for a stock 3.3 Turbo?

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by johnman001

I agree that keeping it basically a stock 3.3 and freshening it up with new bearings, rings, rods, bolts etc. should give me what I am looking for.

If I do this, is there any easy mods to give slightly better performance?

Once upon a time I had heard that SC cams would wake up an otherwise stock turbo. Later I had heard of using other cams to do the same thing.

What cams would be recommended for a stock 3.3 Turbo?

I have always liked the SC cam for driveabilty.
You can open the intake to 36-37mm, cross drill he crank, upgrade the turbo and jack up the compression slightly. Of course better head studs. Twin plugging is an option if it's in your budget. Do all this and turn up the boost and 350 hp is an easy target.
At this point the trans becomes a critical issue. Trailing arms and chassis mods also become hyper important with all this torque.
I will add pictures of the intercooler and muffler tomorrow.
Cheers

[johnman001]

Henry,

I take it that the "extra" pipe is for the wastegate. I'm interested in the connection between the two headers.

There probably isn't fixtures for that. You wouldn't happen to have another just laying around by chance.....

[iamchappy]

John i am sure you've seen this but......Some different looks on installs

CLEWETT ENGINEERING: Peformance and Innovation

MSDS Inc. -* HIGH QUALITY HIGH PERFORMANCE ACCESSORIES

914 6 GT TURBO CARRERA 3.12 TwinPlug

[johnman001]

Originally Posted by iamchappy

John i am sure you've seen this but......Some different looks on installs

CLEWETT ENGINEERING: Peformance and Innovation

MSDS Inc. -* HIGH QUALITY HIGH PERFORMANCE ACCESSORIES

914 6 GT TURBO CARRERA 3.12 TwinPlug

Dave,

Beautiful car. I followed along with your build on 914world.

Do you still use the triple gauge? I know you bought one.

You and Martin are my inspiration for going with the 930 engine, but I want mine to be a dedicated track car.

I remember reading that you had some issues with your engine when you first got it done. I hope everything is sorted now.

Which transmission are you running?

Are you 914-6 headers and ran more plumbing for the turbo?

[iamchappy]

John your triple gauge is a wonderful addition to my dash panel.
My engine still leaks oil all over the place mostly from the through case bolts.
I have a KEP stage 2 clutch that cant hold the horsepower with boost more than 11lbs.
I ordered a Kevlar clutch from Renegade last week that i hope will let me boost it up a few more lbs. i want to run it at 14.5.
I am using a 901 with LSD and short gears until it blows up, i try not to beat on the tranny by making smooth shifts and roll into the boost, so far so good.....
I am using headers with my custom built crossover pipe. It would almost be easier to do a twin turbo setup so you could keep your exhaust and intake runs short, something i've thought about doing if i did do it over again.

Hopefully the economy will pick up a bit. Me being an artist and my wife out of work until just recently, i dont have the extra funds in these tough times to send my engine off to Henry to get it rebuilt and shore up the oil leaks.

Let me know if i can be of any help, good luck.......

[Henry Schmidt]

The headers connect with a precision slip joint. It is a complete system including an intercooler, waste gate, mounts and muffler.
If you look closely you'll see a blow off valve from a 935 factory race engine.

[Henry Schmidt]

By installing this system you end up with a large number of stock 930 parts to sell and recoup some of the cost.

[iamchappy]

Damn Henry, nice puzzle I am trying to imagine how that all fits together....

[Henry Schmidt]

Maybe some pictures will help.
Cheers

[johnman001]

Henry, thanks for sharing.

I even have GOTTI wheels like that.....

The pictures of the car look to me older than the pictures of the individual components, but I assume that they are just as old.


Do you know what became of the car?



______
edit
______

That's a 901/914 gearbox. Did it stand up long to the punishment? I have destroyed too many to believe that they would last behind a turbo engine (even with a steel reinforced intermediate plate and spray bars).

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by johnman001

Henry, thanks for sharing.
I even have GOTTI wheels like that.....
The pictures of the car look to me older than the pictures of the individual components, but I assume that they are just as old.
Do you know what became of the car?___

That's a 901/914 gearbox. Did it stand up long to the punishment? I have destroyed too many to believe that they would last behind a turbo engine (even with a steel reinforced intermediate plate and spray bars).

Your welcome
The pictures of the car and engine are scans from pictures taken 15+ years ago.
The component pictures were taken within the last couple of weeks.
The car was sold on Ebay about 18 months ago.

During the 90s the car ran as a 2.0 in it's first configuration and later as a 2.4 and finally a 3.0 all were MFI. The 901 gear box was rebuilt on a regular basis but never failed to finish a race weekend.

The turbo was built but never raced. The plan was to take on Pikes Peak.

The turbo engine was a 2.5 liter (66x90mm) aluminum case engine that only made around 320 hp. The turbo project was also built with mounting brackets for a 915 tranmission. The engine was finally disassembled to build a special project. I hung on to the turbo bits because I always though i would build that great little engine again.

[johnman001]

Thanks Henry!

You wouldn't want to part with the parts would you?

I think I will be creating a 3.3 914 in the somewhat near future....

I have the tub, the suspension parts, the brakes, the 3.3, and so far a 915 gearbox and a side shift kit for it. It looks more and more like it will be a full tube car.

[Henry Schmidt]

john
Call me on friday.
We'll talk.