Case Bolt O-Ring problems

[Targa Time]

Today I finally buttoned up the case on my 3.2 SS rebuild. Everything went fine, or so I thought. Had the case through bolts and perimeter nuts all torqued down in 35 min. But while cleaning up the excess RTV from around the case bolts I noticed bits of blue O-Ring squeezed out from under the washer. This only occurred on the bolt side, the acorn nut side is fine. My best guess is that the RTV caused the O-Rings to balloon as it was compressed being the bolt side did not rotate while tightening. Is this a problem? I don't think it will leak due to all the RTV. And I'm pretty sure the torque was not affected. If anyone has any experience with this could you give me some insight.
Thanks

[EBS_Don]

Give the green Viton o-rings a try. Much more difficult to pinch one of these while blue ones are almost always a hassle.

[Jeff Alton]

Two mistakes were made.

The first was what Don mentioned, use the green viton ones only.

The second was using RTV on the bolts..... Not required, don't do it.

Cheers

[Flat6pac]

I put grease on each O ring as I assemble and have never, knock on wood, had a problem. I use to use spray lube before tightening but its not as apparent when tightening as the grease is. Try to keep the washers from turning helps set the seal.
Bruce

[Targa Time]

Thanks for the feed back. It seems that the consensus is that I should use Viton O-Rings and not use RTV. That lesson learned, what do I do next? Can I remove one case bolt at a time, replace the O-Rings and re-torque? Or do the cases have to be re-split and start over?

[Flat6pac]

You dont have to split the case. You built it to work for you. If you pull the bolts then you have RTV is the oil system. RTV will break and chip when you pull it back. Either leave it alone or you ll be splitting the case to remove RTV from the oil gallies.
RTV shouldnt be any where near an engine build.
Bruce

[Targa Time]

And here I thought I was doing good following Bruces book to the letter. So you are saying to leave it as is and continue putting the engine together?

[Flat6pac]

My opinion is, if you disturb any of the RTV its liable to break off and threads of RTV get lost in the oil system possibly plugging cam oil line holes and worse than that throwing a rod because of oil holes in the crank plugged with RTV..I ve seen that on a 2.4 S about 25 years ago.
Bruce

[lindy 911]

I had the same issue with using the blue o-rings from Pelican and then following the advice in Waynes book about using RTV; they leaked like a sieve. I pulled one bolt at a time and was able to clean the RTV from the case without much trouble. I used the long tube supplied with a can of carb cleaner to blow any debris out from the opposite side. You need to be careful and make sure nothing goes into the oil galley, but it's doable.

Get the green o-rings and use silicone grease to install. Make sure you hold the bolt with a boxed end wrench so it can't move before you start to tighten the nut. If the bolt turns, even slightly, it can foul the o-ring. I put the box end wrench on the bolt and then let the wrench rest on whatever part of the case is nearby that will keep it from turning.

My opinion: If the o-ring is pushed out where its visible, it will leak. Been there, done that. It's worlds easier to fix it now when the cylinders are off. You cannot fix it with them on.

Lindy

[Targa Time]

Thanks guys
Even though I understand Bruces point on the RTV particles, I believe that I can be careful and replace them without contaminating the engine. My other concern is re-torqueing the case studs and its effect on the crank bearings. But I guess I really don't have much of a choice. Lindy, did you have any issues regarding that? (crank bearings)

[lindy 911]

The advice I got for this procedure came from Henry Schmidt. I sourced my o-rings from him and he sent me the grease he uses and I have had no further issues with the case bolts. If you take one bolt out at a time the case will not move. Additionally, if you used 574 on the main bearing case webs as per Waynes book, they are glued together which only helps. No issues with bearing (that I know of).

Lindy

[MBruns]

The green viton is the best way to go ! also be sure the case has a chamfer, many that we see do not, or have it on one half and not the other,They need room to compress if not even the viton will squeeze out, use heavy oil or grease, "O" rings can not do there job if they are glued in place !
Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

[Targa Time]

Waiting on a new set of Viton O-Rings. Glad I'm not in a hurry.

[Cipotifoso]

Waynes' book is a good place to start. Many threads take the book as a starting point and debate or reinforce various points. Do your research - the search function is your friend! Based on what I learned on this board, I ordered the green Vitron o-rings from our host after I had my gasket kit; I'll toss the blue ones. Also, you should lube them with either Dow Corning 55 or 111 grease. The opinions are split on which one is better; I think they are very similar, with the exception that 111 has an ingredient that will swell the seal a bit. I went with the 55. They are both available in small quantities from flea-bay, as they are commonly used for scuba and espresso machine O-rings.

Dave

[4sd911]

Check this thread about viton / blue seals.
Problem with case bolts + viton o-rings

[Targa Time]

Thanks 4sd911 for the thread post, just got done reading it. I've come to the conclusion that I should research each step of assembly here on this forum prior to doing the work, and not count on the Wayne book solely.

[mca]

I used the blue ones with rtv. No problems or leaks with over 12k on the engine.

That being said ... I torqued the through bolts down without any rings. Then I let the case sit for 24 hours. Next day I took each through bolt out 1 at a time and (following the torque pattern). I then installed the o rings with rtv. This way I wasn't racing against the case sealant clock - I could take my time and really focus on getting the o rings just right.

[ALEX P]

I'm approaching the point where I've got to re-seal my case so this is a very interesting thread.

The o-rings I removed when I split my case were the blue ones but the new ones I've bought aren't blue or green, they're black. Does anyone know what material these would be?

The green ones sound like the ones I'm after and if I'm going to to swap then now is the time to do it!

[Targa Time]

MCA thanks for the post.
Thats a interesting way of putting your case together. I guess when it's all said and done I'm doing the same thing. (removing each bolt and reinstalling) how much time on the engine since the rebuild? Any problems that you can tell with the main bearings or leaks from the case?

[mca]

I've got over 12k miles - 2 years. No leaks.