The Beautiful Puzzle: 1987 3.3L 930 EFI Build
 

I've been lurking here for some time looking for my dream car and thanks to Tony (350HP930) I'm proud to say I finally found it!

It's gonna be a long road (build) and I'll be needing lots of help from you guys so let's get started!

What assembly lube should I get before torquing rod bolts onto the crank?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1300661733.jpg
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use that package that comes with the ARP rod bolts. did you already torque up the rods with the new bolts and have a machine shop check that they were still round and in spec? installing those bolts may distort the bore. new bushings fitted to the wrist pins?

Nope, haven't done anything yet.

Will this do cuz I don't have the APR packet of lube?

Lubro Moly 3010 LM48 Engine Assembly Lube, 50g, Brand: Liqui Moly

I need to get an engine stand too. Will the P201 Engine Yolk fit most stands?
Thanks,
RC

I can personally attest that the rods have already been lightly reconditioned after they were refitted with the new bolts.

They were still within spec, but I'm a believer with rods its worth to go the extra mile to make sure they are right on the spec.

I took about a half a thousandths off the cap and rod and used a nice sunnen precision honing rig to make them perfectly round again and quadruple checked the measurements.

This thread reminds me that the pack of ARP moly lube that came with the bolts is still in my tool box. Let me know the next time you are up this way and I will be happy to get it to ya.

As far as lube for the bearings during assembly, any good assembly lube will do but I'm a particular fan of permatex products. You can buy some online if you can't find any at a good local auto parts store.

Amazon.com: Permatex 81950 Ultra Slick Engine Assembly Lube - 4 oz.: Automotive

My congrads and thanks to the Captain for giving my baby a nice new home. It will be some interesting vicarious action watching everything go back together here on the board.

:)

I seemed to remember I had to modify the generic stand I bought to fit the engine yoke. I can't remember off hand, but I seemed to recall either the diameter of the stand I bought was to large or I had to drill holes in it to be able to turn the engine and lock it in position.

Maybe someone else with a better memory will chime in. I can take a look at it tomorrow and post findings.

But then again, I'm in Canada and everything is different here.........

Thanks, I've never been to Canada but it looks like a beautiful place to live...in the summer anyways;)
RC

Thank you Sir, I'll chase down some Ptex 81950 ASAP so we can get this show on the road!
RC

Engine stand
 

The yoke should fit all stands, the hole is a standard dimension. The holes in the yoke probably will not match position exactly with the yoke pushed all the way in but I never used them when I was rebuilding over the winter. The friction held my motor securely where-ever I rotated it.

That makes sense to me. Thanks Jesse!

How's the weather in Boone? Are the Rodos blooming? I miss it...went to ASU back in the day:cool:
RC

Top of the Mtn.
 

Weather is fine, nothing blooming up high, it snowed last week. You can still ski at Sugar and Beech. I actually have all the engine rebuild tools that I plan to sell very soon once I'm sure the engine is long term viable. Yoke, Engine stand, Cam Shaft tool, Motorcycle lift to get lower the engine, maybe. Too bad you're a long way off, not practical to ship that kind of tonage.

Oops, forgot how cold it gets there in March. I remember once it snowed 8-10" on April 1st!

Thanks for the offer on the tools, but you should keep them cuz he who dies with the most tools wins!

RC

Back to work now...

I read that I should use Threebond 1104 to seal up the cases. Is that what you guys recommend?

Thanks,
RC

The 1104 is good stuff, but you must use it sparingly since what squeezes into the inside of the case can break off after hardening and cause trouble with the lubrication system if there is too much of it.

To get it just right, I recommend taking a test piece with a similar bonding area width to the case seams and doing a few tests. Apply a thin layer to the center of the sealing area, bolt together, wait a couple hours for it to seal and then break it back apart to see how much it takes to completely seal the seam without squeezing past.

Great Advice & Thanks!
RC

Making good progress on supplies:

Ordered both Threebond 1104 & 1211, some Loctite 574 and Dow Corning 111 for the o-rings.

I plan to apply loctite 574 to the bearing saddle surfaces in the cases and appling Threebond 1211 on#8 (balancer end).

Should I also loctite the conrod bearings?

Thanks,
RC

For accurate torquing you should only use the molly grease on the rod cap nuts. It will insure the proper stretch and if you get it right they will not back off. Locktite is more suited to lower torque bolts and nuts that have to deal with the risk of backing off.

Not sure if I mentioned it during any of our convos, but I worked my way through college as a motorcycle mechanic. Lost count of how many motors I had to seal up with 1104 and it always did the trick.

Nice, I've built a v-twin torque monster myself:)

Actually, I was thinking about applying the loctite between the conrods and conrod bearings so they don't move and not on the bolts...however, this may be overkill?
RC

I would advise against that since the locktite would not be guaranteed to flow out of the space between the bearing and rod before setting which could cause very bad issues since rod bearing clearance is critical, especially too little of it.

The bearings are designed to have the perfect amount of crush, so short of catastrophic mechanical failure they will be just fine being clamped inside a lightly oiled surface.

Good point!
Thanks!

In an effort to show our host my appreciation I've ordered my 1st Pelican Part!

Ordered the much coveted Engine Stand Adapter Ring;)

Cylinder to head Sealing & Head Stud Options
 

I still need to cover the topics of cylinder to head sealing and head stud choices before I can dive headlong into this build.

After some homework I still have no idea what to do about sealing the heads to the cylinders, but think I've narrowed it down to 3 top choices:

APR

Supertec

Porsche Steel

All you engine gurus out there please let me know your experiences and what you'd recommend on both sealing and head studs.

Thanks,
RC

Plastigauging the crank rod journals and each connecting rod. I've read that it's good to make sure they are in spec 0.030mm to 0.088mm, but I'm worried that the bearings may deform during the process and have a greater tendency to spin. What should I do?

Thanks,
RC

Don't forget to inquire about head sealing and EFI options too Rick unless you already have your mind made up about those issues already!

Fortunately the EFI options are a lot more plentiful and less costly than they were back when I started down the path you are currently on. ;)

As long as you are careful with them the rod bearings will be able to handle more than one clamping. The strain is well within their elastic limit so they can handle a few cycles without any issues, just make sure the rod journal has a light layer of lube so they can displace to where they want to go and that they are perfectly straight and flat in the rod before you pop the cap on and torque them.

Great! I like plastigauge;)

Yep, there's lots and lots of details to work out on this slippery slope, but we'll get to them all!

Thanks,
RC

Bearings
 

Rick, use a dial bore guage for checking your rod clear. and be sure its closer to the .088mm clear. we can fire ring your head/cyls. like the 935 style do it all the time, what size bore are you going with ? that is the biggest concern with reducing seal surface area, if its 97 or 98mm thats fine but 100mm and fire rings not much area left.
Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

Mike, they are stock 3.3 930 holes that have been honed, so sounds like fire rings would work fine !
RC

I'll break out the bore Guage tonight

fire ring
 

It should be a 97mm bore, if you have a dial bore guage torque the rods without the bearings and measure it, on those I start at 2.284 in. on the big end housing bore then put the bearings in and see what you have for bearing clear. just be sure the crank,rods, mics. are all in the same room to get the temps the same, my engine room is like a meat locker compared to the machine shop.
Mike

Will do and Thanks!

Cylinders mesurements
 

I went out to the garage to set up to measure the rod bearing clearances, but got sidetracked measuring the cylinders and checking roundness and taper. Before I could get to the conrods the mosquitos ran me back in the house. At least they gave me a t-shirt for the donation:eek:http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1300756757.jpg
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Roundess dead on!
 

The shop manual says if the cylinders measure within 0.08mm of new then they are good to go. I have one new one that measured 97.060mm and all the rest were 97.070 or less. They were all round and the taper from top to bottom was 0.01mm or less. I think it's safe to say the PO took real good care of this 930!http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1300757189.jpg
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Nice bore gauge and pics. Sorry to hear about the skeeter attack, but we are in florida after all. Probably need to add some bug repellant to the project list as well, lol.

Nice build. Good luck.

got the spray!

now I have the rods torqued to 37 ft-lbs with the old bolts, but can't find my micrometer to set up my bore gauge so big end clearance checks will have to wait for now...maybe I'll measure the slugs and start matching them with cylinders:)http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1300883713.jpg
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Rods
 

Rick, If I understand your last post correct you can't use your old stock bolts to get a measurement, the ARP or whatever non stock bolts are torqued to a different value and will change the housing bore dimensions IF they were resized with the ARP bolts. So that said if they were resized with the stock bolts the same applies to just installing the ARP's won't work. They have to be resized with what you will be using, the ARP can be stretched several times without an issue, they want you to cycle them several times before final torque. Plus it most likely will be something your regular dialbore guage won't be sensitive enough to detect the out of round condition, the guage on a rod machine has a sweep of .010 in. total instead of .050 or .100 in.

Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

+1 on leaving the ARP hardware in the rods. They can handle the stress cycles and will create the clamping force the rods were resized for.

Thanks Mike! I had no idea the APRs wanted to be streached/cycled before final intallation:confused:but that's good to know. Glad you're on my teamSmileWavy

I'll take the old bolts out and replace them with the new APRs;)

My gauge is sensitive to 0.0004":p
RC

Thanks Tony, I'm counting on you guys to keep me straight!

I'm take'n it real slow so I don't mess up;)
RC