few more
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1345205612.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1345205619.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1345205625.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1345205633.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1345205641.jpg

Congrats from another Delaware Jeep and Porsche guy.

Pete,

Your pics are a big help.
You now have 3 new Porsche friends in your area.
You have a recommended Porsche shop near you.
From the photos it looks like you have a very nice
older Porsche 911 that just needs a little TLC and
cleaning (and resealing the engine).

Advice: Call the shop and make an appointment for a PPI - usually about $300.
The PPI will tell you all that needs fixing on your new Porsche and an estimated cost.
Be sure to ask for a leak down test on the engine.

Your new friends can offer a lot of help/support if you decide to do the work yourself.
It appears that "oldgunner" has a lot of experience and might be a great help to you -
suggest making contact with him and looking at his project car.



Regards,

shop inspection
 

Roy,
I've got an inspection set up for next Friday at Fairwinds thanks to the recommendations here. Will seems very responsive which is nice. You and him both have me pretty positive at this point, that I'll be able to safely get it on the road without too trouble (knock on wood).

Pete,

OK, you are on the right road to getting your new Porsche fixed and ready for driving pleasure! Topless in the Fall is great driving in a Targa.

While you are waiting for the car to be done you can join the Porsche Club of America and start meeting other PCA members in your area (along with the ones you have connected with on Pelican). You can join PCA on line at:

About PCA

This is where you find your local Region and look at their calender for events and meetings.
My son and I started this way 7 years ago and it helped get into the Porsche people circle and learn a lot about the cars. However, I have been a Porsche owner (on and off) since 1964 with a Red 1958 356 that needed an engine rebuild that I did in a school workshop at Cal Poly in California (also flunked a few classes and joined the Navy...another story).

To make this an Engine Rebuild post I will include a photo of our 964 rebuild progress


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1345405843.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/678078-1992-964-engine-rebuild-reasonable-approach.html

The car has a very good 3.2L
engine we have run for 3 seasons - but we need more torque for the BMW's he races against.
While the 964 engine is in the shop for assembly Brian and I put new graphics on the race
trailer this weekend. And did a few other small tasks to get ready for racing next weekend in a NASA-AZ Night Event here in Phoenix.

Wish you well with your Porsche project,
And, please post your progress on this thread so we know how you are doing.

Regards,

I made it through "when to rebuild" chapter of Waynes last night, and hoping to get a good way through this book before friday so i'm somewhat knowledgeable when I talk to the mechanic. I'm anxious to see how it goes. Expecting to do a leakdown test. He also said I'm welcome to be there while they go over everything while it's on the lift, which will give me a chance to really inspect the underside and get some better pictures.
Roy, your sons car looks like a blast, but it seems like an expensive hobby!

parts...
 

So I'm trying to get a rough idea of what I COULD be in for. Based on the mileage and what i've read, I have a hard time believing that it could have 141K miles on it, and not have had an engine rebuild, or not NEED an engine rebuild. So if that's the case, then I suppose I'm looking at around 6-8K? But if it doesn't, there seems to be plenty to do that could justify just doing a rebuild anyway. Here is my list so far. let me know if you have any thoughts, if any of this is not needed, or other things are definitely needed, or if I should look elsewhere for parts b/c of prices, or if I can wait on certain things.

Heat exchanger box, SS - $1140
Muffler SS - $910
(where can I get cheaper ones? SS is really not needed for me)

11 blade fan $120 from another forum member
Timing chain kit (not sure if needed) $1208
Valve guides $5ish each
Upgraded Studs $258 for steel Are these same as timeserted or do i need different ones???
Pressure Fed tensioners $60?
Valve cover set $595
Ignition assembly - $691 or $117 if it's just the ignition wiring
Engine holding fixture - $270

OK, so just in parts I'm between $5-6 K, and I'm sure I'm missing things.

Pete,

Glad you are doing lots of homework...enthusiasm helps a lot and gives you energy
to work on the Porsche -- which is very nice!!

Let us know what Will at Fairwinds has to say about your car??

His professional evaluation tells the correct story.

Regards,

There is a bunch of stuff you dont need. I d look for a 3.0 and put the 2.7 in the corner. Cost of building a 2.7 exceeds the value of the engines intrinsic value (core value and cost of redoing the mag case)
Bruce

Hmmm. I was told this by another mechanic. How do I go about investigating this and how do I know if the 3.0 is any better than the 2.7 I have? I've heard it's basically "bolt in" with respect to the engine swap. Can you sell the 2.7 for any money?

This car will also be a "good weather" car for me, like I'm sure it is for most people. I'm not interested in the AC/Heating. Is there an option to just have a "normal" exhaust (that may be cheaper) instead of the heat exchangers?

More info...
 

Pete,

Bruce has a good suggestion ---

Why--- because the 2.7 is a Magnesium case (as I have been told) and when you
open the case halves you will need to have the surfaces machined and then case line bored, and a few other things done too.
This is because the Mag case may warp when separated - make sense?

Reasons to keep the 2.7= original engine matching numbers with nice Porsche Targa
body...but not of a great value $$.

Reasons to swap engines= long term driving enjoyment.

You may want to talk these options over with Will when he does the PPI.
The leak down numbers will be a major factor in what you do with this engine.
Engine rebuild can easily be $13K+

If you proceed down the engine swap path be very careful about the engine you buy...
there will more major research to do. You have an excellent Porsche man
responding to your Forum thread in Bruce - Flat6pac.

Regards,

Good for you convincing your parents to give you this gem. You are already ahead of some of us because you know the former owners. They can tell you what they have had done to the car. Some of us are guessing.

I would not assume that you need a rebuild just because of mileage. My 911 (3.2) has 175,000 miles on it and I am just now taking it apart. There are many people on this forum who have gotten over 200K on the original engine.

Good luck in this adventure. It can be trying at times but so rewarding and quite the learning experience.

If leakdown and compression are good I wouldn't rebuild. Not going to add much value to what you have.

But start to look at these items to address oil leakage issues:

Magnesium Valve covers? - try to find some aluminum and "turbo" lowers tend to hold their shape better over time. Could try to resurface the top ones maybe with sandpaper atttached to a flat piece of metal (old trick). But the bottoms I would change. (new gaskets and do not use the crappy orange sealant).

Rocker shaft leaks? These present themselves on the cam tower down by the oil return tubes, you think its a valve cover leak but it isn't. If leaking can try rocker shaft seals/o-rings. These are especially frustrating, ask me how I know.

Oil line case fitting on left side of engine, line returns to tank. Looks like it might have a leak there. Remove/Replace fitting with new alum crush washer and reattach oil line. Sometimes that fitting just loosens up over time.

Lots of oil in engine compartment on right side top. Replace breather hose and check hoses that go from the oil tank to the back of the CIS to see if any of those are cracked. Also check oil filter seal and cap seal on the tank there is a rubber or cork gasket on the underside of the cap sometimes it dries out.

Engine mounted oil cooler seals (3 of them), easy to replace if leaking. 4 nuts.

Oil return tube o-rings? If these leak can get collapsible tubes and replace o-rings without taking engine apart.

As far as exhaust, if you have no emissions issues, maybe get some used early 1 1/2" factory heat exchangers $300-$400 off the classifieds and find a 2 in 1 out pre '74 muffler (new probably under $400 if you look around). This will give a little bump to the butt-o-meter feel and sound good too. Same exhaust as the SSI essentially. just not stainless.

If you do rebuild the longblock, the parts aren't that expensive really. The machine work on that case is. Budget $1200-$1500 to do it right, resurface, line bore to std, oil bypass, timeserts, etc at Ollies or somewhere such as that. I have had one done (Roy referred to my car earlier in this thread) Can potentially do the whole thing yourself for around $4000 including machine work replacing standard wear items. At least double that and probably more if someone else does it. But, then the while you are in there's start kicking in and you will want higher compression pistons, s-cams, carbs so you can get to 200hp+ (add another $4,000....).

If you buy another engine to put in, like a 3.0 which is pretty much plug and play, get one with a known history so you don't have to basically spend the same money to have to rebuild it. Your 2.7L is probably a $1200-$1500 core to someone if you choose that way to offset some expense. Or just sit it in the corner if you ever sell the car you have the original engine.

Just take your time and have fun with it. Good luck.

Erik

fairwinds
 

thanks everyone for all of your input. I'm waiting for the tow truck as we speak to go to Fairwinds. Hopefully it's an exciting day. I really appreciate all the input on here, and the phone call last night with Bruce.
Although i feel prepared as to what questions to ask, I'm sure I'll be lost on some of it. I'll try to take good notes.

time for a new engine
 

Well, as I suspected, there are some issues with my 2.7 Pulled the distributor wire and listened to the engine and you could hear the "pst pst pst" of it leaking compression, so we didn't even do a compression test. Several head studs are pulled, core has been cranked down on pretty hard and studs were drilled through in the middle, need new exhaust, needs new fan, basically it's time for a rebuild. The plastic vaccum thinger, was popped off, which meant it was backfiring in the intake from what I understand and running lean. He figured I was probably only getting 100 or so of the 165 horses that it has, even though "it runs". the good news is the body is in great shape, needs some paint, and that my 2.7 had the carrera chain tensioner upgrade done. But it seems that the only way it's worth while to do one is to do it myself. Will gave an estimate of 7-8 thousand for that.
So after lots of talking, and me spending about 4 hours there, will was pretty convincing that 3.2 engine was the way to go. We even looked on ebay at different ones he would recommend. I think that if I order a 3.2, and have them drop it in, that might be the way to go for me. I saw them anywhere from 5-6K and he quoted me at 1K to install it, which included all of the miscellaneous stuff, and he said it would be less if things go smooth. If it needs a new clutch, maybe another 6-7 hundred.

So if I'm lucky, i could spend 5-7K installing a "new to me" 3.2L, and have it up and running in the next two weeks. Now this is a shock to me, and I'm hesitating on pulling the trigger, because its alot of money to me, but I also don't think that it makes sense to put alot of time and money into something that is not going to be worth that much more with a rebuild 2.7... However, I think that at the end of the day with a 3.2 i could have more fun, and get my moneys worth....

The question is now, does this make sense? Am I crazy, and should I just bite the bullet?...

The question after that is does anyone want to buy a 2.7L and does anyone have a 3.2L for sale?? do I have an extremely large paperweight with the 2.7?

After talking to Will today I'm convinced that the 3.2 is the way to go. However, if the 2.7 is going to be more work for him, wouldn't he want to work that? More maintenance in the future for him? Or is it he is just being honest and thinks any time/money into the 2.7 is a waste?
Thanks
Pete

I told you he would probably take you to a 3.2.
Paper work with engines on e bay can be anything but 3.2 with 100K miles, give or take, are all in need of valve job and thats where paper work would be the important thing.
I would prefer to look right here on Pelican for 3.2.
Bruce

Ok, so what do I need to know about a valve job... The two places that were recommended to me were "Weekend Rides" and "LA Dismantlers". The nice thing about Weekend Rides is its within driving distance, and one of engines they have available is still in a car and I can drive it before they take it out.
If you see any on pelican, please send them my way. Thanks
I'll research both these things and see what I come up with.

Warm it up and do a compression check. With the throttle open and all plugs removed, you should be able to hit 160+# in all the cylinders. If the top end was fresh and its a US car I would look for 180# across the engine.
Bruce

Pete,

You are doing very good at getting your Porsche fixed and driving again.
And, swapping in a 3.2L is also a great idea!


It is great that there is a good Porsche used engine dealer near you in PA. I looked at their web site and looks like great potential there. The engine you mentioned
being in a car that is drivable is a good start. As Bruce said, you need to have some testing done on this before jumping into a purchase - it looks like the seller has the
capability to do a compressing test while you observe. It is very important to know the service history of an engine -- and a lot of the time the salvage people have NONE.
You may need to look at many possible engines before selecting - I should have done more looking recently and it is costing a few more $$ than I anticipated to get a used engine rebuilt to fit our needs.

We would offer our stock spec race quality professionally built 3.2L but I don't think you are looking to spend $12K on an
engine. And, my son and I have not decided to sell it or find a nice new home for
it in another Porsche - maybe an '85-'87...or a '73 hot rod street car...and we may need to hang on to it for a while as a back up race engine.

If you start another thread on this Forum you can ask this community if someone
has a well documented 3.2L for sale...that is one way to get feedback on what
other possible engines are available...and you may need to be more patient than
you think you can be to get this car running well again...just sayin' :)

Wishing you well on your journey,

Regards,

Roy,
Certainly not looking to spend that much on the engine. I'm looking in the 4-5K range. Right now I have about 4 or 5 engines I'm looking at. If numbers are good on the ones at Weekend Rides, should I go ahead? The thing I like about them is they give a 6 month warranty according to their site. Additionally my mechanic has worked with them before and is pleased with them.
Anyway, still open to all opinions, engines, etc.