3.3SS rebuild finally underway..........

[fred cook]

Originally Posted by fred cook

Looks like the engine will have to come apart again! After checking just about everything possible, the dropping oil pressure remains. The good news is that I found a deal on a shop crane (1 ton capacity for $99) which I have ordered. This will allow the engine to be picked up and put on the engine stand without having to go rent a crane. Compared to $229 or so, a half day rental for $30 made sense, but at $99 it makes more sense to buy one! Anyway, it looks like the oil pump or block oil seals may be not doing their job. So, as soon as the new seals and shop crane arrive, the engine will come back out and be disassembled to get the new seals. At least everything is new and clean this time!

The culprit was a cut seal inside the engine case. It was the seal that connects the high pressure side of the oil pump to the left half of the engine case. It must have gotten bumped slightly out of place when I put the two block halves together. Will clean everything up and reassemble with a different brand of oil seals. Also, when I join the two case halves, I will use the shop crane to slowly and carefully lower the left side down onto the right side! That way, I can keep an eye on things until just before the case halves are joined. With about half the seal missing, I am amazed that the engine made as much pressure as it did!

[kwdotis]

Hello! Did you apply anything to the nose bearing? I used 574 on the case and cutil t on the front and rear crankshaft seals, between the case housing and the seal Case sealed up beautifully, but nose bearing leaks between the nose bearing and the seal.

Thanks, Kelton

[fred cook]

Originally Posted by kwdotis

Hello! Did you apply anything to the nose bearing? I used 574 on the case and cutil t on the front and rear crankshaft seals, between the case housing and the seal Case sealed up beautifully, but nose bearing leaks between the nose bearing and the seal.

Thanks, Kelton

All I did on the nose (#8) bearing was to change the o ring seal. I did use some Curil T on the gasket for the cover plate. When I had it running the first time, I saw no leaks there. Right now, I am waiting on a coupe of cam gaskets to arrive so that I can finish putting it all back together. I believe that I have resolved the cut seal problem by using a different brand seal and by gently lowering the left block half into place with my engine hoist. The perimeter of the block showed a good "squeeze" so I am hoping there will not be any (significant) leaks. More later!

[thumbdoctor]

I always apply a little Dow Corning 111 compound (basically thick dielectric grease) to the oil pump and oil cooler seals. The compound is thick enough to hold the seals in place and slippery enough to allow the seals to seat without damage.

[fred cook]

Finally got the reassembled engine and tranny back in the chassis and all connected up. While I had the engine out this time, I installed an Innovate DB air/fuel ratio gauge. It came in a very comprehensive kit but even at that I had to source a mounting panel and build a 3 foot extension for the LC1 cable. The good news is that it built oil pressure within about 20 seconds of cranking! Once I got oil pressure, I bled the fuel lines and, with fingers crossed, fired it up. It started fairly easily but needed some adjustment to the air bleed screw and some adjustment to the enrichment screw. I let it run long enough to warm up to about 180 degrees and even at that point still was showing a bit over 1 bar of oil pressure at idle. Now, I've got to tidy up a couple of things in the interior, let the car down off the jackstands and go for a drive! Oh, yes, after letting the engine run for about 15-20 minutes, there were NO leaks showing!

[Dave Kost]

congrats Fred!!!

[IXjamesXI]

That's great news!!!! Nice work fixing it back up!

[87 930]

Awesome. Great thread. Glad you found the issue.

[jsveb]

I am so glad to hear this. Congrats Fred!

[fred cook]

Ok, folks, after 1 day short of 5 months, I have the rebuilt 3.3SS engine back in the car and running reasonably well. I still have a wee bit of fine tuning to do, but other than that, it's done! Starts well, idles and revs nicely and most important, is making good oil pressure (even when the engine is hot)! I just got back from a 10 mile drive that went without any issues! Oh, yes, I will need to make a small adjustment to the clutch linkage, but that will be due to my preferences as it works as is. Also need to pull a vacuum on the a/c and refill. Just so you don't have to read thru 8 pages of posts, here is a summary of events.

On May 1st, I started the project by pulling the engine and tranny. Over the next few days, I disassembled the engine and started cleaning parts. I already had most parts on hand and expected a quick rebuild. So, at the end of June, I had the rebuilt engine ready to go back into the chassis. In it went, everything got hooked up and I fired up the engine, only, to discover that it was not holding oil pressure! I spent some time checking everything that was externally accessible but finally decided that the problem was in the block. So, it all came apart again. At least this time everything was clean!

Sure enough the oil seal between the high pressure side of the oil pump and the block had been cut on assembly. I sourced some new seals of a different make and reassembled the block. About the time I was putting the head/cam housing assemblies back on, I managed to drop a cylinder head washer into the block!!! Rats! (Not exactly what I said, but close enough!). So, after sitting for a couple of days so that I could cool off, it all came back apart again! Found the washer caught under the intermediate shaft gear, right where it would have caused all kinds of damage!

Ok, so now I am assembling the block for the THIRD time! This time I got it all back together without any mishaps. Retimed the camshafts and buttoned everything up. So now, I had the engine/tranny all back together and ready to go back into the chassis but decided to order and install an INNOVATE DB air/fuel ratio gauge before doing so to make it easier to run the wiring for the gauge. Anyway all that caused me about a week of waiting on the gauge to arrive and to install and wire up. The gauge came with very comprehensive instructions but I did have to source a gauge bracket and make a 3 foot extension for the wiring harness. Got the engine reinstalled on Wednesday night and then had to be out of town until today (Sunday). So, after church, I let the car down off the jackstands, checked everything one more time and went for a drive. I rode around the s/d for a while and then went into town to get some fresh gas. The engine runs well, pulls very strong up to about 4500 rpm (where the ign interrupter is set AND doesn't seem to have any oil leaks! So, now I am the proud owner of an SC coupe with a 3.3SS engine, Carrera twin plug heads, 964 cams, Electromotive direct fire ignition and a somewhat modified large port SC air box and intake runners. After putting some miles on it, changing the oil/filter and checking the valve adjustments, I will take it to the local dyno and find out just what kind of power it is making!

Thanks to everyone for hints, tips, suggestions and support. A special thanks to Wayne for writing the 911 engine rebuild book! Was it easy? Not really, but with care most home mechanics can do this. Was it quick? Well, it could have been except for my bone head mistakes cutting the seal and dropping the washer! Was the end result satisfying? You betcha!!!

[Lapkritis]

Nice work - congrats. Hopefully you get a lot of trouble free service from it to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

[jsveb]

I am so happy for you. Now i know why the reports was not as quick as I expected from you.

I really look forward to some reports on how this engine behaves.
Enjoy, you deserve it.

[fred cook]

I took the car out for about 10 miles, came back to the shop and did some timing and CIS tuning. Then, went back out for another 15 miles. The engine starts easily and runs smoothly at idle. At the moment, I have the a/f ratio set at about 13.5 at idle. In normal driving, the a/f ratio will vary from about 13.0 to 14.5 or so depending on throttle position. I did get a chance to test my wide open throttle enrichment mod by running at about 2k rpms in 4th gear and then opening the throttle to max and letting it run up to about 4k rpms. Using the wot feature, the a/f ratio drops to about 12.0. Perhaps not rich enough for a racing situation, but certainly enough to keep from burning a valve, etc. Also, when doing the wot pull from 2k to 4k, the engine pulls like it has never done before! Can't wait to get some miles on the engine so that I can move the ignition interrupter up to 7k. The max engine temps that I saw today were about 190-200F with an ambient temperature in the 80s. Even at max warm, the oil pressure at idle was about 1 bar (yea!). I will continue to put a few miles on it each day and make adjustments as needed. Because of the added displacement, I am thinking that I might need to replace the 1980 throttle body with one from a turbo engine which is also 3.3 liters. I'm also considering an adjustable WUR. More on that later.

[KTL]

Great news Fred. Glad to see it all came together for you.

Don't go too easy on it during break in. Drive it hard & avoid steady rpms to ensure your rings settle in nicely.

I'd shoot for something in the 13.0 range for your WOT air fuel when you dyno it. Obviously dyno plots will tell you what to do. But I think 12 would put you on the "fat" side of the power curve, being down a bit on power and costing you fuel economy as well.

Daytona Sensors LLC - Tech FAQ Engine Tuning

Just my opinion.

[akuraina9]

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[gsxrken]

CIS cylinder to cylinder fule distribution is not spot on by sny means, and an AFR is measuring all six at once. I'd stay in the 12s at WOT unless I knew alot more or had a SafeGuard knock sensor.

[KTL]

I hear what you're saying about the A/F wideband averaging multiple cylinders. In Fred's case with headers, he's actually only averaging three.

Understood that CIS could be selling a cylinder short. But is it really that common of a problem for CIS to lean out a cylinder(s) and burn a piston? Doesn't seem that this happens all that often on regular street cars, which are most likely nearer the 14-15 range to maintain decent fuel economy? Not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to understand the behavior of CIS.

[fred cook]

Since CIS distributes fuel from a common pressure chamber (fuel distribution block) thru fairly equal "pipes", each cylinder should be getting it's share of fuel needed to maintain a relatively common a/f ratio. Also, my engine has nearly new injectors so that should not be an issue. I do have another exhaust analyzer, a Gunson and will check the total a/f ratio at the exhaust tip soon. I have pulled all 12 of the spark plugs and all have the same light brown coloring with no sign of oil. Right now, I have the fuel adjusted to be just a bit rich so that it runs typically between 13.5 and 14.5 per the gauge. When doing a WOT pull between 2k and 4k rpms, the a/f ratio drops to about 12.5 plus or minus a bit. Considering that this is now a 3.3 liter engine with hotter cams, I am basically pleased with the CIS operation. The CIS setup consists of an early air box and large port runners using the 1980 fuel distributor and other hardware. The frequency valve which is currently disconnected from an O2 sensor is/should be working at a 50% duty cycle. I had considered removing it from the system entirely, but will probably leave it in place for now since the system is meeting expectations.

The WOT mod is nothing more complex than a push switch mounted on the throttle linkage that is closed (only) at wide open throttle. I have it wired to a switched +12v power source which activated the cold start valve at WOT. The cold start valve feeds thru a small manifold and puts the extra fuel into the air going into each runner. So far, it seems to be working well. It is completely automatic and uses existing hardware. With about 50 miles on the rebuild, fuel mileage mostly in town seems to be about 17-18 mpg which is what is was on the stock 3.0 engine. I'm sure that a track day would eat into that number, but that would be ok and is expected.

[suprxman]

Great to see Fred has got a good running engine. Due to 12 broken dilivar studs I will be doing something similar to his build but taking about 2 years to do it due to financial considerations. No hurry no worry.
Fred does make a great ATO fuse block for those who may need one. Mine fixed many problems but didn't do anything for my head studs. Thanks Fred.

[fred cook]

Originally Posted by suprxman

Great to see Fred has got a good running engine. Due to 12 broken dilivar studs I will be doing something similar to his build but taking about 2 years to do it due to financial considerations. No hurry no worry.
Fred does make a great ATO fuse block for those who may need one. Mine fixed many problems but didn't do anything for my head studs. Thanks Fred.

I know where you are coming from. I gathered parts for this engine over 4-5 years! When you get ready to do your engine, let me know if you need to borrow any of the special tools.

Fred C.