Budget 3.2 head stud replacement project - Page 3

Mr Project · 06-06-2013, 05:51 PM

Lapkritis - I appreciate your perspective, but hey, I asked for input and I'm getting it. If I didn't want some input and other perspectives, I wouldn't post on the internet. I'm a big boy, I'll make up my own mind.

I've owned 6 Corvairs, all with less than 100 RWHP. I quit measuring my dick a long time ago and just learned to enjoy the ride.

Henry - You're making some compelling points. I just couldn't picture a way to split the case without turning this into a full "New P&C, rebuild heads, new bearings, full engine porn" project like yours and others posted here. And I can't justify that on this car, when the engine ran so well.

You're right, however, I know nothing about the history beyond a 1500 mile drive home with it. No rod knock on the trip, but it could have been overrevved a dozen times in the past for all I know. My wife made a good point last night when I said that there was no indication of rod problems and she pointed out that there were no indications of broken head studs either until I pulled the valve covers.

If I can really address the rod bolts for <$1000 that changes the risk vs. reward equation compared to $5000+.

Honest rookie question - if I buy recon rods, do I need new wrist pins and bushings as well? Or can I re-use any of that?

Side note: Apparently there is a nationwide shortage of steel head studs at the moment. Pelican has only 9 steel studs, Supertec doesn't have any of theirs, and the Pelican guys had to dig deep from another supplier to find these for me.

Look what showed up today!

Risk vs. Reward example: I didn't mind spending a bit over $400 to replace fuel lines even though mine weren't leaking. Unknown age and a common failure point that I can address for $400 and not burn the car down? Sold. Whiz, Len is at lenDOTcummingsATverizonDOTnet

PFM · 06-07-2013, 05:07 AM

Mr. Project,

FYI if you pull the cylinders I believe you could pull the rods without splitting the case. Maybe not ideal but then rod recon and new bolts are well within reach. I did this to check deck height on all 6 cylinders during build up.

strikee · strikee's Garage

Mr P have you made any progress? Would be interested to know current $$$ and labour hours to date.

Many thanks
Ed

Mr Project · 06-16-2013, 07:23 PM

I did decide to bite the bullet and split the case. Just got the case split yesterday and have the parts heading to the machine shop tomorrow. Here's what I'm expecting cost-wise for the case split portion of this 'build':

ARP 204-6005 rod bolts - $230 on ebay
Machine shop recon rods - $110 for set
Machine shop clean/inspect crank and clean case - $100
4 additional chain ramps - $31
IMS bearings - $32
Connecting rod small end bushings - $33
Case gasket set - $54
Rod bearings (haven't ordered these yet) - $150
Main bearings (not sure if I can reuse or not) - $200
Oil pump lock tabs - $13
Flywheel bolts (2) - $5
Loctite 271 - $7.75
Loctite 574 - $25
Curil-T - $14
Cleanroom wipes - $9

I picked up another Subaru project yesterday as well, so those are the 2 additional heads in the shot. Hoping that the profit from that project will cover some of the scope creep on the 911.

Mr Project · 06-16-2013, 08:03 PM

Couple references here to re-using main bearings. Do these look reuseable? Or should I replace (assuming that crank is OK for std/std.)?

Along those same lines, how would I know if the nose bearing needs to be replaced (assume crank is OK)? I see what looks to be some oil staining but no major signs of wear on the inner surfaces.

iiXii · 06-17-2013, 06:11 AM

Nice picture, thanks !

safe · safe's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Project

Couple references here to re-using main bearings. Do these look reuseable? Or should I replace (assuming that crank is OK for std/std.)?

This should be replaced, imo.

can't say about the no:8, bu usually they are reusable.

Mr Project · 06-17-2013, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiXii

Nice picture, thanks !

You can tell when I go clean up and borrow the DSLR from my wife rather than using my phone while wearing my greasy nitrile gloves, can't you.

Mr Project · 08-03-2013, 06:30 PM

Finally some progress, but a stumbling block tonight.

Crank checks out to STD, I double-checked and measured it at 54.991mm
Rods reconned by the machine shop and I measured them at 58mm
Rod bearings are supposedly STD and I measured them at 1.5mm

I plastigauged the rod bearings after torquing down the ARP bolts and got a good result - about .030.

However, there appears to be a 'pinch' where the side of the rod bearing is getting hung up and crushed. After torquing the rod bolts down, the rod would NOT rotate. After removing it, the brand-new bearing has some odd kind of wear mark.

Help? I'm rather stumped.

Lapkritis · Lapkritis's Garage

Caps on backwards will bind up.

500_19B · 08-04-2013, 12:42 PM

FWIW I went through the "should I or shouldn't I" exercise on my 3.2 rebuild. I ended up splitting the case and doing the full job. Now, with the car back on the road it is running perfectly and I am enjoying the greater security of knowing nothing was left to chance (to the best of my ablity that is). At the time, the negative was the extra money. I ended up doing everything I hoped to save money on (e.g. new P's & C's). But six months later I don't miss the money anymore.

A lot of people do seem to have no issues leaving the bottom end alone, but I ended up following Henry's line of thought on the entire build and it works for me.

Mr Project · 08-04-2013, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

Caps on backwards will bind up.

Wow, such an obvious and simple error - I was so focused on getting the stretch gauge in position I bet that's exactly what I did. Thanks, I'll hopefully try again tonight.

whiz05403 · whiz05403's Garage

How is the project going?

Mr Project · 08-15-2013, 04:12 AM

I got side-tracked on another budget rebuild of a 2.5l DOHC Subaru motor. Got that done and back in the car last weekend, and got the chamfer tool and wrightwood gasket set in the mail this week, so I'll hopefully be back to the Porsche soon.

TibetanT · TibetanT's Garage

I have been following this thread since there is valuable information from Henry's experience.

Now, I am wondering about these rod bearings which seem to have "wiped" against the crankshaft.

Can these new rod bearings, or rather should these, be used or would a another set be wise? (Of course, the plastigue came in within spec and the engine was never run, but I am always paranoid about stuff such as this.)

GL with your build! I was happy to hear/see you split the case.

Mr Project · 08-17-2013, 06:41 PM

Good question on the bearings, I'm curious as well. I measured them in every way I could, and couldn't detect any difference. I did go ahead and reuse them, although I mixed them in with other bearings rather than using both on the same rod.

I re-plastigauged every rod bearing and put all of the rods on the crank today, all went well and seems like a good amount movement on all rods.

I did more case cleaning and was hopefully going to start case assembly, but ran into a stopping point with the piston oil squirters (#3). One of them is being very stubborn, and despite a full 120+psi and some soaking with various thinners and solvents today, it refuses to open up. The other 5 are fine, and I've been through all of the threads I could find on the subject. Soaking it in Kroil overnight now and will try again tomorrow.

In between other projects over the last several weeks I did manage to get all of my sheetmetal and other parts sandblasted and painted. I used a hi-temp engine paint from Summit Racing rather than powdercoating. I wanted to try something different, something repairable, and my guy that I usually do powdercoating with hasn't been returning my calls.

Mr Project · 08-18-2013, 10:43 AM

Yeah, overnight in Kroil and 4 hours in "MEK Alternative", with a good tight seal and 130psi - nothing. So it looks like I'm stuck for another couple of weeks while I wait for an oil squirter from our host.

Mr Project · 09-16-2013, 03:24 AM

Finally, some progress! The piston oil squirter was a bugger to remove, but eventually the slide hammer won out. After getting it replaced, the rest of the case assembly went quickly and smoothly last night.

I did end up buying the Wrightwood gasket kit after getting a little nervous about some posts RE: the VR kit. Thus, I have over-spent a bit on some duplicates that I'll try to return or sell off.

Mr Project · 09-17-2013, 03:32 AM

More progress from last night: I'm on my way to a flat 3!

The pistons and cylinders are not very clean, because I didn't want to pull the pistons out of the bores and therefore didn't want to get cleaning solution trapped somewhere it shouldn't be. I'll make sure the sealing surfaces are clean and then hit the fins with brake cleaner and such after the heads are on and things are sealed up a bit.

Mr Project · 09-18-2013, 02:57 AM

More progress - my neighbor has been telling me that there's no way I'll be driving the car again this year. I have more to do than just the engine - but I'm trying to prove him wrong.

I get a couple of hours to work each night this week after the kids are in bed, so I'm hoping between evenings and this weekend to have the engine assembled and ready to re-install.