re-do ?

[tcramer]

Hi everyone, when I installed my headstuds (arp) I couldn't find the special arp lube,so I used new motor oil mixed with some moly.torqued to 36ft.lbs. Of course I found the packet of lube 2 months later.In the meantime I've learned 36lbs. is considered by some experts on this board to be too high for a mag.case with case savers.Should I go back and re-torque the studs to around 25 lbs. with the arp lube? Any and all thoughts appreciated! thank you, T.C.

[porschetub]

Originally Posted by tcramer

Hi everyone, when I installed my headstuds (arp) I couldn't find the special arp lube,so I used new motor oil mixed with some moly.torqued to 36ft.lbs. Of course I found the packet of lube 2 months later.In the meantime I've learned 36lbs. is considered by some experts on this board to be too high for a mag.case with case savers.Should I go back and re-torque the studs to around 25 lbs. with the arp lube? Any and all thoughts appreciated! thank you, T.C.

Engine oil only or supplied lube,moly lube screws up the the torque ,hell thats tight for a stud, just my 2 cents.
Pull them out clean them and redo,you will sleep better.

[afterburn 549]

I would with check with a few more experts .You have inserts right?
I know i went more then 25 on mine , never a problem. It seems like 35 was the number.

[Spenny_b]

Can't offer any advice w.r.t. your mag case, but I'm with porschetub, insomuch that you;re asking the question, therefore you know deep-down you want to re-do them ( ) ...been there, bought and wearing the damn t-shirt....I'd remove them, clean thoroughly and re-do to whatever is the correct spec.....and sleep easy

Rgds
Mr OCD

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Spenny_b

Can't offer any advice w.r.t. your mag case, but I'm with porschetub, insomuch that you;re asking the question, therefore you know deep-down you want to re-do them ( ) ...been there, bought and wearing the damn t-shirt....I'd remove them, clean thoroughly and re-do to whatever is the correct spec.....and sleep easy

Rgds
Mr OCD

Uh. I think the OP was asking about the torque on the head stud nuts. If so, why the suggestions to R&R the studs? If the tightening torque was too high, then back off about 1 rev., then retighten in the appropriate steps and pattern to the correct torque spec. If too loose, note that the breakaway torque can be higher than the applied torque. Loosen as above, then tighten to spec.

Use the suggested lube on the threads if not previously applied.

Sherwood

[Spenny_b]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Uh. I think the OP was asking about the torque on the head stud nuts. If so, why the suggestions to R&R the studs? If the tightening torque was too high, then back off about 1 rev., then retighten in the appropriate steps and pattern to the correct torque spec. If too loose, note that the breakaway torque can be higher than the applied torque. Loosen as above, then tighten to spec.

Use the suggested lube on the threads if not previously applied.

Sherwood





Sherwood

Re-read please Sherwood, I made no mention of studs. I was talking generally, if you (the Royal you, not you personally) are giving stuff a second thought, then it's time to re-do it (anything) and sleep easy.

With regards to why remove and replace (R&R?) stuff, the ARP lube could/will torque differently to engine oil when tightening the head nuts. No good just backing-off something and re-torquing when you've got the wrong lube applied. Again, without investigating, I'm not aware what the procedure is with Mag cases and stud installation, but would've thought their heights need to be set before assembling everything, same as ally cases.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Spenny_b

Re-read please Sherwood, I made no mention of studs. I was talking generally, if you (the Royal you, not you personally) are giving stuff a second thought, then it's time to re-do it (anything) and sleep easy.

With regards to why remove and replace (R&R?) stuff, the ARP lube could/will torque differently to engine oil when tightening the head nuts. No good just backing-off something and re-torquing when you've got the wrong lube applied. Again, without investigating, I'm not aware what the procedure is with Mag cases and stud installation, but would've thought their heights need to be set before assembling everything, same as ally cases.

Since the OP (tcramer) said the head studs are made by ARP, why not just follow ARP's installation suggestions? In addition, it's also unclear if the OP was asking about installing the head studs (as in adjusting the installed height in the crankcase and not torqued) versus tightening the head stud nuts (as in installing the cylinder heads). And since you were in concurrence with porschetub who suggested using engine oil on the threads to "torque the studs", I wanted to make the distinction between installing head studs versus tightening ARP cylinder head nuts. Clearer?

Sherwood

[porschetub]

Originally Posted by Spenny_b

Can't offer any advice w.r.t. your mag case, but I'm with porschetub, insomuch that you;re asking the question, therefore you know deep-down you want to re-do them ( ) ...been there, bought and wearing the damn t-shirt....I'd remove them, clean thoroughly and re-do to whatever is the correct spec.....and sleep easy

Rgds
Mr OCD

Good response IMO ,its all about checking then rechecking,it just makes you feel better cause anything after that is bad luck or a ''curved ball'' surely.
Do it right from the start because the mistakes made earlier on will cost you,its not like you are rebuilding an simple motor afterall.

[Spenny_b]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Since the OP (tcramer) said the head studs are made by ARP, why not just follow ARP's installation suggestions? In addition, it's also unclear if the OP was asking about installing the head studs (as in adjusting the installed height in the crankcase and not torqued) versus tightening the head stud nuts (as in installing the cylinder heads). And since you were in concurrence with porschetub who suggested using engine oil on the threads to "torque the studs", I wanted to make the distinction between installing head studs versus tightening ARP cylinder head nuts. Clearer?

Sherwood

Sherwood, it appears you're confused by my very simple original reply. My comments inline with your last post.--->

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Since the OP (tcramer) said the head studs are made by ARP, why not just follow ARP's installation suggestions?

Yes, that's exactly what I AM suggesting, hence my suggestion to remove and clean whatever the OP is having second thoughts about.

Originally Posted by 911pcars

In addition, it's also unclear if the OP was asking about installing the head studs (as in adjusting the installed height in the crankcase and not torqued) versus tightening the head stud nuts (as in installing the cylinder heads).

I agree, not too clear in the original post but we can make general, educated guesses and suggestions, can't we.

Originally Posted by 911pcars

And since you were in concurrence with porschetub who suggested using engine oil on the threads to "torque the studs", I wanted to make the distinction between installing head studs versus tightening ARP cylinder head nuts.

No, re-read again please, pertinent part bolded for clarity....

Originally Posted by Spenny_b

....but I'm with porschetub, insomuch that you;re asking the question, therefore you know deep-down you want to re-do them

i.e., the part where I'm with porschetub was --->

Originally Posted by porschetub

Pull them out clean them and redo,you will sleep better.

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Clearer?

No need to be patronising and belligerent, my friend.

[911pcars]

Not to belabor this, but some owners tend to accept suggestions to the letter, and while I'm pretty certain you understand the difference between studs, bolts and nuts, I'm not sure interchanging terms makes it clearer to those who might be doing this for the first time and often without credible reference materials to follow (the assemble-by-numbers approach).

So, when it was suggested to, "Pull them out clean them and redo, you will sleep better", I wanted to clarify that removing the cyl. head studs ("pull them out") isn't necessary just to re-apply the suggested torque lube. The only torque applied to the head stud is to the end clamping the cylinder head in place with its threaded nut, and where a quick spritz and dry with a spray solvent is probably sufficient to prep the threads for the proper torque lube instead of potentially removing (6) piston/cylinder assemblies, (6) heads and (24) cyl. head studs.

Apologies. Color me anal-retentive as it relates to using the correct terms. It's an occupational habit.

[Dick Shift]

I would never torque the cly. head nuts to more then 24lb's on a mag case! regardless of type of stud. EVEN with 2ed over size case savers/time serts. They can pull. On a 2.7ltr. mag case it would be advisable to under torque a little then ever over torque. I use a little[any] lubricant except anti size on the threads of the nuts.
If yours haven't puled the case savers loose yet I would back off, re torque AND count your blessings.