From Germany with love: Porsche 964

[Undutched]

Aloha everyone,

as weird as it may sound, being from Germany and all, I do feel I would get better info on here than on the German forums.
I am currently undertaking a new project: At the beginning of the year I bought a 964, C2 and manual, being not too good in shape. Engine leaking, clutch nearly gone and rust.
From the beginning it was the plan to go single-turbo and try and reach 600hp+.

Coming from a JDM background having had Evos, Skylines and such, tuning a Porsche is completely new to me and getting to know all the brands, products, requirements necessary for this build has already taken half a year.
Most German tuners don't want to give any details and simply give a bulk price for an amount of HP.

In any case I am now starting this whole procedure and do require substantial help, especially in the details of this build.

So far I have ordered LN Engieering cylinder with JE Piston (8.0:1), have a gt3 oilpump and that's already where the fun begins!

I am looking into BW EFR 8374/9180 with internal wastegate and BOV, due to lower cost and time needed for the build, as well as the stringent TÜV. Running open wastegates and a BOV would not be viewed with kindness.
Chris from Turbokraft told me that he does not recommend this turbo due to the higher EGTs on the air-cooled motors. How much higher are they? Plus I did want to run E85 as it is readily available here.
For this reason, I have waited to see what type of header I would run.
I do plan to buy a Intercooler from Turbokraft and he further told me that my pre 91 intake manifold with double throttle is not suitable. All well and good, but is the plastic manifold up to higher boost pressures or is 1-1.5bar irrelevant?

I am looking at VEMS with Coil on plug, as i can get this plug and play from Raceboy.
Reason being there is some support here in Europe, although I would have preferred an AEM.

My main issue is with supporting mods and "you need to do this", as I simply cant find all the info I need or simply don't know what to ask!
I.E. what type and size fuel injectors? Do I need to or can I run multiple fuel pumps?
What sensors are required or unique to Porsche? cams and valvetrain? What needs to be done, or what is recommended?

I would appreciate input and information so I have something to refer to and not have to wait 12 weeks for minor parts.


As it sits now on KW Clubsports, just drooling oil....

[totle]

Hi, and welcome to the forum.
There is many knowledge people on this forum.
Chris is a great support when it comes to turbo engines and is very helpful. The intercooler is just awesome. Raceboy has done some crazy stuff too, so seems like you already are talking with some great people.

I also find this the best porsche forum, and people here are very helpful.

Try also to post in 930 turbo forum.

Running E85 and your hp goal, you would probably go for 1000cc injectors.
Clewett has great sensors.

[totle]

Are you planning both E85 and gas?
If running only E85, you could have gone for higher compression ratio

[Spenny_b]

Hey, welcome!

I'm working with Chris @ TurboKraft for my project linked below, feel free to have a read, you may well find a lot of answers to questions that will come up.

I was also a novice with Porsche engine tuning before undertaking my project, and have to say, Chris has been supreme with the amount of counsel he's given. I'm going down the MBE route, as one of my best friends is an absolute genius with their stuff, and works hand-in-hand with the MBE factory and development teams. Apart from the usual mundane rebuild items (gaskets, nuts/bolts, etc) and anything to do with the ECU (loom and a couple of the sensors), pretty much all of the major items have come from Chris including LN Eng cylinders.

As you'll read in my opening post, I wasn't going to go down the route of "bleeding edge technology", nor was it going to be anything other than a straightforward CIS/K-Jet > EFI conversion....but it kinda went silly somewhere along the line! (although not as crazy as some projects on here....it's still a single turbo and not running GT2 cams!). What I was looking for, and one of the reasons I chose to work with Chris, was that I wanted nice recipes of parts that would all work together. I knew my limits, and choosing a "roll your own" solution was beyond my experience. Sure, you learn a lot along the way, sometimes situations are forced upon you that mean you need to take new paths, but that's part of the fun. I think?!

Good luck and give me a shout if I can be of any help

Cheers
Spencer.

[Edelweiss]

Dear Undutched,

welcome to the forum - the best by far when it comes to air cooled Porsche !

From what part of Germany do you come from ?

Best reg.

Dirk

https://de-de.facebook.com/edelweissmotorsport

[Undutched]

I will be running both pumpgas and E85. The car will not be a track only car, and E85 is available in my area, it is not everywhere.
What compression would you have recommended with only e85? 8.5?

LN engineering has an agent in Germany and had the cylinders in stock, so it was an almost a no brainer.

You always do something more than you plan, but still better than having done something regretting afterwards


Spencer, looking at your thread I see you had a a similar starting point


I am located a bit further north than Essen, near Bremen, so not too far. I already had liked you on FB!

[Edelweiss]

Hi again,

ok - this is around the corner....

If you like, give me a call concerning the pistons !

I'm available until 22:00 every day.

Best reg and thanks for liking us on FB !

Dirk

00491725428509

[Lapkritis]

Welcome - I would recommend the VEMS system. Many options for a good price.

Enjoying holiday on the Rhine these last few days. Neustadt and Lucerne next.

[Undutched]

Have fun in Germany/Switzerland

What COPs do you guys recommend, or which actually fit? Whether I buy a VAG, Porsche, etc. unit all cost around 30€ (40$) new, but there is a vast array of part numbers, so Id like to know which would actually fit?
I have seen another thread where toyota units where used, but had to have some custom parts made to fit in the mold at the top of the valve cover. I'd like to not have to do that

Edit: I looked at the thread again: It looks li




from this thread:
3.6 with ITBs & MS3X into G50 Carrera – the story so far
referring to this post
3.6 with ITBs & MS3X into G50 Carrera – the story so far

[Undutched]

Installed KW Clubsport this past week

[TurboKraft]

Originally Posted by Undutched

I am looking into BW EFR 8374/9180 with internal wastegate and BOV, due to lower cost and time needed for the build, as well as the stringent TÜV. Running open wastegates and a BOV would not be viewed with kindness.
Chris from Turbokraft told me that he does not recommend this turbo due to the higher EGTs on the air-cooled motors. How much higher are they? Plus I did want to run E85 as it is readily available here.
For this reason, I have waited to see what type of header I would run.
I do plan to buy a Intercooler from Turbokraft and he further told me that my pre 91 intake manifold with double throttle is not suitable. All well and good, but is the plastic manifold up to higher boost pressures or is 1-1.5bar irrelevant?

Hi, what I was trying to express to you is that the EFR turbos aren't really a proven product on these cars. The EGTs are substantial on air-cooled engines, much like rotary engines. What works on a typical water-cooled application isn't always durable on these engines.
We have the good fortune to see all kinds of imports come in to use the dyno, some very high end builds, and thus far we haven't seen any results from the EFRs that put them above comparable turbos from competing companies like Garrett.
For this reason, and the fact that the Garretts have a long successful record, is why I was recommending them to you.

Wastegates can be routed through silencers, that's easy.

Recirculating BOVs is easy, either OEM or aftermarket.

The plastic manifold can take 1,5bar and more.
We do not use that odd egg-shaped double throttle body of the 1989-91. Fabricating pipes to attach to it and be serviceable is a real pain, and you cannot use the stock rubber elbow. If you want to do it, go for it. We'll build and intercooler and you make the cold side charge pipe.

e85 -- you'll need 1,000cc injectors at a minimum, and I would run 1300s. Not cheap, but all stainless steel and extremely precise. No problem idling at <900rpm if you want.


The following package will do over 600hp on our weak 91-octane pump gas, made for the 1992-94 964 engine with turbo P&Cs:



Headers are twin scroll, no heat (car is stripped of heat and A/C) but heat is easy to include.
Intercooler core has been proven on builds doing over 750whp.
Turbo is Garrett GT ball bearing, billet comp wheel, niresist twin scroll turbine housing.

[Spenny_b]

Originally Posted by TKChris

Turbo is Garrett GT ball bearing, billet comp wheel, niresist twin scroll turbine housing.

.....Ok, so now I've got Turbo-Envy!

[Undutched]

Guten Tag

Yesterday I picked up my LN Engineering cylinders and ordered a set of JE pistons with 8.5:1 compression.

From Edelweiss I have bought a 4.0l GT3 crankshaft and further a Verdi oil-pump so it all fits in the casing.

I also have someone to do the head-work I visited yesterday who will do some bench testing, etc. so as to suit my goals.

[Lapkritis]

I love the part of the build when the parts start arriving... it's like Christmas whenever a delivery shows up.