Another 3.0 Rebuild

[brads911sc]

Ok. I am an idiot. I read in many places that alittle water in the intake will solve my carbon buildup... so lets get the water out then... a couple pops later (sounded like rings snapping) and i have loss of power, oil smoke out of the tailpipe and breather system, and a car that runs like ****... So I assume the worst. Broken rings? Car has 96k miles.. so while abit early... i was using 1 QT per 600 miles so probably needed a top end refresh anyway... and I am secretly excited to be doing this... although my wife and bank account do not share my hidden excitement.

The good news is that I have relatively new 40 mm PMO ITB's, SSI/Dansk Sport 2 in 1 out, MSD ignition, new clutch/flywheel, MS 2 V3.57 EFI controller, Recurved Dizzy thats all in at 3k RPM (Thanks Barry Hershon)... so I have the basics already on the car. When I say new.. I mean all of this has happened within the last 3k miles.

So engine is now out of the car...



I have ordered heads from Steve Weiner at Rennsport Systems. He is a great guy.. People like him deserve our business.

Heads are Large Port (CNC'd for flow), new valves, new PB Guides, Viton Seals, Aase racing springs, Ti retainers.





So.. I have some decisions to make. I am not a half assed kind of guy. Im not going to go on the cheap to save 1k on a 12k project... on the other hand 1k is 1k and I dont want to waste 1k either. I am also not going to totally redo the top half and not replace bearings inside. The case will get opened up. I only want to do this once.

I need to choose a cam. Steve and I will talk about this more but Im leaning GE 20 or GE 40 Cams. This is a street car and i live below 6k RPM's so I dont want to lose any low end torque.

I need to choose P &C's. I use Chevron premium (92 Octane). Not going to pay $8 a gallon on Race gas, not going to twin plug.

Mahle stock 9.3:1? Mahle Euro 9.8:1?
Nickies / JE 9.5:1 stock 95 MM or 98MM

All four of these are going to run me 4k, so I might as well do it so that have the best of both longevity and performance. On the other hand this is where you could save some money.

I dont know what I have yet but I could save 3k and rehone / reuse... or Buy a set of replated cylinders from Millenium Plating and a set of JE's and save 1k. I could buy new AA Performance cylinders and save 1k.

This is where I dont want to spend 7-8k on Cams/Heads/Bearings/incidentals and then shoot myself in the foot to make it 10k vs 12k.

Any insight and recommendations would be helpful.

I plan on tearing into it over the next few weeks... Ill report back on what damage I find. What kind of P&C's I have with pics...

Stay tuned. Thanks for your support.

[jpnovak]

Brad, sorry to hear of your misfortune. This will be a fun project. I think you should delay some of your decisions until you tear down and asses the damage.

If you have to replace the PC set, I have a nice set of 98mm cylinders for you. I will make you a deal you can't refuse.

I think you will like the 40 cams. They have a similar torque curve down low and pull great up top. You can get a custom grind with a slightly wider lobe center. This will help broaden the torque curve and ease some of the pains of speed density tuning with the ITB/EFI setup.

[brads911sc]

Thanks Jaime. I will definitely wait to make decisions until I get it open. The only sure thing are the heads Ive already ordered and a cam that is better suited to ITB's.

Thanks for the recommendation. I need to talk to camgrinder or jerry Woods.

I definitely might take you up on the 98's. What are they? Bored Mahle's? Plated? if Plated, By Whom? or are they Aftermarket? Brand? I am hoping I get lucky and have Nikasils which would change the options abit. We'll see. Ill let you know. I am not excited about paying 4k for P&C's and several people told me to not go with stock pistons since im running a more agressive non-stock Cam. Im reluctant to go with AA performance or QSC Cylinders to save money... and Perfect Bores and Nickies are basically the same price now. So choices are limited unless I go with Bored/Plated Mahle's with JE's.

[jpnovak]

My set of 98mm are factory Mahle 98mm. They are Nikasil and while they are used but measure in-spec. I can not say the same for the pistons. Part of the set are now ashtrays/paperweights.

[brads911sc]

Can i use je's with those? what would i need to do to them? Any issues with expansion rates?

Originally Posted by jpnovak

My set of 98mm are factory Mahle 98mm. They are Nikasil and while they are used but measure in-spec. I can not say the same for the pistons. Part of the set are now ashtrays/paperweights.

[lindy 911]

Yes you can.

[brads911sc]

Thanks. Let me open it up and see what is going on in there and Ill let you know. Thanks !

[Karaya]

subscribed!

Karaya

[brads911sc]

Update -- Made some progress today.

Engine on a stand, exhaust off, Fan/Alternator off. Right side pretty close to being able to identify the damage done. Ill post pics as soon as I get the cam tower and heads off...

[brads911sc]

Ok. So I ripped apart the right side today (where the pop occured).

The good / bad news... Here is the broken middle ring. So as I suspected. Would it be normal to break the middle ring? That seemed odd to me.



The head looked normal. Valve properly seated. No obvious damage. Steve W ported/CNC machined being on the way and being used anyway because I use some oil and its time.

More news. I have Kobelschmidt Alusil 95mm cylinders.



So question for those reading this...

Replate my Alusil Cylinders or buy a set already replated (millenium plating). Keep 95 MM size and buy JE's which may be better matched to the GE 40 cam and ITB's plan... (2k total).

or Buy Nickies / JE combo (4k total).

This is a street car. So dont want to spend the extra 2k unless I have to... but I do want these to last 100k miles and offer trouble free performance.

I also could go 3.2SS if I am spending the 4k. Cant do that with my 95mm cylinders because they have the sealing ring although EBS could also do those as well for $2,500 (still 1,500 less than nickies).

Thoughts?

[brads911sc]

Ok... so I figured the middle broken ring was a potential farce (broke it when i removed it possibly?). Although it could have been part of the event I suppose. Here is my real issue...



So I need to tear down the other side... and open it up. So far its one compromised Rod. the third on the right side doesnt look right to me either. may be slightly tweaked/compromised.

Stay tuned.

[brads911sc]

[brads911sc]

could this have caused any crank damage? I hope not...

[ratpiper71T]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

wow! I left my house one day at around 4:00pm or 4:30. came back around 6:00 and ther was water pouring out my garage door. When I opened the front door there was 2 inches of water on the hardwood foyer and a small niagara coming down over the top walkway and stairs. As I wetvacced up about 600 gallons of water that day, all I could think of was I guess now we can get those hardwood floors, countertops, slate floors we've wanted, I just have to learn how to do all of the labor myself-(because I too am an idot!). Welp.. 2 years later and almost finished. I can see your semi-ironic excitement and understand. Although My story maybe out of place here, the wisdom I've gained from the experience, I'll share with you anyway, Know when to let a pro handle some of the work. It maybe more expensive, but the time it will save you is to quote a really played out phrase,-----PRICELESS!!

Goodluck.

[brads911sc]

Thanks for the sage advice. Yes. Ill let the pros handle most of the work. Steve W is doing the heads.
Ill rely on Steve and EBS and others here to advise on the piston/cylinder choice. Will get John (camgrinder) handle the cams and will let Protechnik handle the machine shop work.
I will just pay alot of money and assemble.

Originally Posted by ratpiper71T

wow! I left my house one day at around 4:00pm or 4:30. came back around 6:00 and ther was water pouring out my garage door. When I opened the front door there was 2 inches of water on the hardwood foyer and a small niagara coming down over the top walkway and stairs. As I wetvacced up about 600 gallons of water that day, all I could think of was I guess now we can get those hardwood floors, countertops, slate floors we've wanted, I just have to learn how to do all of the labor myself-(because I too am an idot!). Welp.. 2 years later and almost finished. I can see your semi-ironic excitement and understand. Although My story maybe out of place here, the wisdom I've gained from the experience, I'll share with you anyway, Know when to let a pro handle some of the work. It maybe more expensive, but the time it will save you is to quote a really played out phrase,-----PRICELESS!!

Goodluck.

[mca]

Cool. I'll follow this one.

How do rods get tweaked like that?

[Flieger]

Post #1 indicates he hydro-locked the engine by trying to de-carbon-ize his cylinders with a little too much water into the air intake.

[mca]

Ah. Not familiar with the damage caused by hydro-lock. Now I know.

[lindy 911]

On a budget, I'd use the cylinders you have but re-plate and stay 95mm. You can source JE pistons for about $900 including rings that work well with a GE40 cam. You can also source a set of used SC rods for about $150 and have them re-sized and bushed along with ARP bolts.

I doubt you're going to see any crank damage as it did not run long this way. I think if you're this far you may as well split the case and re-new the bearings and have the crank checked and polished. I highly recommend having the bearings and piston skirts coated at Poly-Dyne in Houston. Also have them do the piston tops with the heat coat, it is worth the extra step. It's about $300 for all the pieces but well worth it in the long run.

Lindy

[brads911sc]

Thanks Lindy.

That is the plan so far.

I have a call into Steve W and EBS on the replating.. and cant see the extra 2k now on Nickies since its a street car and there doesnt appear to be any damage to the cylinders. They all look brand new..

I also cant see $1600 a set they want for new rods. I need to have all of them looked at to be sure that non of others are tweaked... but I do have a budget and would rather spend my money on the cams and heat coating.

The cams are perfect. no pitting. they look like they were just polished. I thank Kendall GT1 for that!

Which bearings did you have done?

Originally Posted by lindy 911

On a budget, I'd use the cylinders you have but re-plate and stay 95mm. You can source JE pistons for about $900 including rings that work well with a GE40 cam. You can also source a set of used SC rods for about $150 and have them re-sized and bushed along with ARP bolts.

I doubt you're going to see any crank damage as it did not run long this way. I think if you're this far you may as well split the case and re-new the bearings and have the crank checked and polished. I highly recommend having the bearings and piston skirts coated at Poly-Dyne in Houston. Also have them do the piston tops with the heat coat, it is worth the extra step. It's about $300 for all the pieces but well worth it in the long run.

Lindy