Here is a question that I have not found much good information about. My fan shroud is looking pretty shabby, lots of crusty layers of red paint. While pondering that, I thought I would check into just getting a different one, but discovering that there are shrouds, and there are shrouds. Mine has a riveted-on duct for the oil cooler. Looking at the various offerings in the used parts forum, I see there are many that don't have this duct, or have a different-looking one. For this motor, I like the idea of getting as much airflow through the oil cooler as possible, so it seems like a good idea to stick with this design, or am I missing something?

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k7...psqjwszwbd.jpg


By the way, this picture is of my shroud AFTER degreasing and power-washing. The black is baked-on discolored paint.

Once you have gotten all the oil off it, you can get a soft sanding block and some wet/dry sand paper and sand it smooth and re-spray. Using water while sanding will make it much quicker and easier to do.

David

John - While your shroud looks a little different than the ones I pulled off a 78 3.0 SC and my 74 2.7 911, I do believe that the only way to properly refurbish these things is to take them down all the way. This primarily involved drilling out the rivets holding on the internal metal duct, which then can be refinished separately to eliminate rust, paint chips, and bent sections. Also, the inside of the shroud is very difficult to properly clean with the internal metal duct in the way. Not sure if yours has other parts but, if you can take them off and deal with them in pieces, you'll be much happier with the result, believe me.

Re-riveting the internal metal duct is surprisingly easy to do and it was so nice to work with stuff that was now "almost new". To take off the paint on the shroud, there is a paint remover available for fiberglass. Do not, under any circumstances, glass or alox blast this part. I would also consider seeking out a good body guy on how to refinish this part - I particularly like the epoxy paint available from Klass Kote and have used that on my cars, motorcycles and scale model airplanes w/o drama.

Epoxy Coatings - Colors, Clears and Primers - Klass Kote

Attd is a photo of a section of my refinished shroud which did not have paint on it - it is the factory finish just cleaned up....http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1445997717.jpg


Rob

You can always pick up one of these Amber shrouds from our host. They require trimming, but fit really well.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1445998069.jpg

John, Its pretty easy to strip paint off of these using the citrus style strippers from Lowes or HD. Just brush it on and let it sit. These should not damage the fiberglass underneath. Eventually you will get down to the original color of the fiberglass which might be, black, yellow, green or red. There are threads about dying the fiberglass but usually a good strip, clean and reshoot is the way to go.

krylon Fusion paint is generally the best choice for a rattle can covering.

Mark, The thing I do not like about some of the amber fans is the lack of separate cooling air channel for the engine mounted oil cooler. Some have them, some don't. I know the early engines, such as the 911R, did not have these channels but something like your 3.2SS needs this channel.

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Agreed 100% on the oil cooler duct, Jamie. As much oil cooling as the bigger motors need, I don't think I would put on a shroud without one unless I had a really strong alternative oil cooling story. If you check Damon's Series 900 page, he shows at least three versions in the photos of his new shrouds, some with the duct and some without. I see that our host offers the Sheridan shroud along with a similar fiberglass oil cooler duct that could be fitted to make it look like mine.

I'm going to try to re-use mine. It might need some glass repair, some of the attach holes are mangled, etc. As Rob points out, to do it right, I will need to remove the duct. It looks like factory red under the peeling paint. There does come a point where the a new one starts to look attractive relative to the amount of work! But hey, it's the journey, not the destination, right? :D

I am finding that it's mostly the money that determines how fast things move along.

One more thing about rocker shaft removal. I think(I'm doomed already and I PRAY someone with more experience than me chimes in on my behalf) that the risk of damaging the rocker shaft bore using a long allen is worth getting a good 1/4 drive/5mm socket. The rocker shaft bolts will just pop and when they do, could throw the allen just enough to nick the wall. Have you had leaky rocker shafts? A mess. Its a questionable sealing arrangement to begin with. The tools make it happen so much easier and with less damage. In this case, a pro engine builder friend who built my motor 12 yrs ago and 120k miles, w zero issuses, had a Snapon racket and Stahwille stubby hex socket that fit right in there. I now have the same set up and did my rockers the other day(serious). It is a GREAT setup. So secure. Its an area you want to be extra careful with. Run RSR seals as well. SO simple.
I'll shut up now.
Subscribed:)

Dane - I agree that a 1/4" ratchet with a short 5mm allen socket that can fit in the adjacent space is FAR better than feeding a long extension through. I do feel like I was able to remove mine without any damage, but I would much prefer doing it with better suited tools, thanks.

I used what was known as 964 cam's in my 81' 3.0 ltr build ,it was a nice running engine,with factory F.I.,..if I were to use carbs,..they say 240 HP easy,...FM

Heads got here in great shape! Good packing.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...debf6e638b.jpg


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Thanks, Craig - I can't wait to see them looking more like the ones in the background! I just hope my indexing marks are still visible afterwards... [emoji3]


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Fiberglass repair
 

John - there are a few ways to repair fiberglass. Note that you will most likely see the repair unless the shroud is painted and then I would only use epoxy for this.

I have repaired a number of old school glass BMW fairings using this method: First clean up the area with acetone or lacquer thinner. Do not use paint thinner. Wire brush the affected area with a small but stiff wire brush. Clean again with LT. Analyzed the affected area - will the eventual repair be reasonably supported - ie, a crack is easy, holes are worse and edges chipped/holed are worse yet - including munged up mounting holes at the edge.

For a crack, "V" out the crack with a cone bit in a Dremel, going slightly beyond the crack. If cracked on both sides, "V" out both sides so that the "V" meets in the planer center of the crack. ie both sides should look the same when you're done. Sand with 150 - in the crack and slightly around. Buy some 1/16 fiberglass strand from Fiberglast and fill the crack (both sides - one at a time) with this stuff - dry. Apply thin cyanoacrylate ("super glue", "CyA"). It will wick and smoke. Sand and do again until the crack is completely filled. Level, and apply 2-part body filler or 2-part polyester body filler resin to finally fill and level.

For holes, clean and sand as above. Make small "V" cuts around the perimeter of the hole's edge with a Dremel. Apply packaging tape to the outside of the glass pc, over the hole. Now working from the inside, depending on the size of the hole, you can do a few ways. The CyA thing above, or use Kitty Hair polyester resin and strand or you can mix up JB Weld but mix in the 1/16 strand in the matrix. Fill the hole, being careful to not induce bubbles down against the tape.

Edge holes and munged mounting holes: These are tough. I like to use a combo of glass cloth pcs (2 or 4 oz), glass strand and JB weld or Kitty Hair. You will most likely have to fill the entire mounting hole and redrill later. Run your perimeter cuts a little deeper or make slicing cuts so that the glass/schmutz matrix runs beyond the affected area and is therefore able to support the repair hanging in mid air. The packaging tape thing can be used here also.....
Rob

Thanks, Rob. Will evaluate when I get all this paint off - it actually seems to be in better shape than I thought. The shroud was originally yellow under what looks like three or four different coats of red, and one of oxide primer. The paint was sprayed on thick. Getting all of that off is messy and time consuming, I have just been working at it with citrus stripper.


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You're welcome John. You're probably too far along, but you could have used a more aggressive stripper - like the aircraft stuff - once you found that the paint was on thick. Nevertheless, when it's like that, it will still take multiple applications. Make sure you neutralize that stuff - any stuff - before you go to paint. Probably alot of water and maybe a swipe of lacquer thinner. If you use epoxy, you won't need a primer since it sticks so well, unless you want to elim surface imperfections. As an aside, if you're respraying yellow, do not spray it over a gray primer - it won't cover any dark areas, like from the repair. Always use an uninterrupted coat of white primer or paint - epoxy - under anything you paint yellow. Yellow is a notoriously weak color.

Rob

Yeah, a stronger glass-friendly stripper would have been great.

I think it's unlikely this is the original shroud for either the car or even the motor, so it doesn't need to be yellow. After seeing the original finish, I am curious if anyone has ever tried to re-apply a gel coat to one of these, and whether it would be cost-effective or desirable to go that route. Seems like it might be stronger and maybe more impervious to staining than rattle can enamel. Plenty of boat repair fiberglass shops in Austin - I might make a few calls.


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Never thought of using gel coat which an interesting idea, but that stuff is heavy. Epoxy, man - it doesn't dry, it cures. And it won't come off. Forget about the rattle can.

nice progress up to this point John, as far as your cooling shroud is concerned, just a suggestion but your engine might be better off with a replacement shroud from a Carrera engine but more importantly worth it in the long run from a time savings standpoint. I would think someplace like L.A. Dismantler, Planet 9 or DC Auto would be good places to get recycled parts for not a lot of money.

John, Leave it yellow. Yellow is correct for the car (72T). With the MFI-EFI fuel system it will look like the ultimate stock sleeper.

Funny, I looked it up the other night and found that the yellow with the long oil cooler duct like the one I have is correct for this car. It is in really bad shape though, the glass is breaking down. I am going to order a new one from Damon - in yellow.

Well, it will sure look great.

Are you kidding? I'm thinking 8-10hp, at least. More if I replate all the hardware.


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Hell a G2 sticker on your car is 10hp min!


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There are rebuilds, and there are rebuilds...
 

Well, some not-so-great news tonight, but I can't really say it is wholly unexpected. I had come to view with suspicion the claims that my motor was a rebuild with 25k miles on it, and I think got some more logs tossed onto that fire.

When I split the case a couple weeks ago, I noticed there was some lateral play in each of the rods, but it was consistent across all of them, so thought maybe that was normal. Jamie (jpnovak) came over tonight to inspect, and he thought that the play was a little excessive. We pulled a rod, and observed wear on the bearings, so pulled them all. Also noted some wear on the main bearings, primarily on the two nearest the flywheel.

We measured the piston rings, and they are just barely within spec. With Craig (cgarr) already observing that the exhaust valves and all the guides need replacing, one wonders what was actually "rebuilt" 25k miles ago. It might have just been putting in the cams and resealing. Who knows?

Anyway, what this means is I will be doing the bottom end, too. Up till now, it seemed silly to do all the bearings and rod bolts if they were "perfectly good" in a relatively recently built engine, but now I know they aren't exactly perfectly good, so I can make sure it's all fresh. Added to the project list will be new main, rod, and intermediate shaft bearings, new rod bolts, and flywheel balancing.

Here is the icing on the cake - the crank looks like it banged around in the bed of someone's pickup. :D Hard to imagine what might have let loose inside an engine, causing this damage, yet leaving the crank still usable. Had to have happened in one of this crank's prior lifetimes, but unnerving. Hard to believe this would not cause balance problems, especially since the "rebuild" included hotter cams and heavier valve springs - and even going so far as having the redline raised on the tach.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k7...pstndglgyw.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k7...psfzxp6twc.jpg

So much for simply swapping the motor into a new case! (You knew that was a just a dream, right?) I'm looking at the bright side - at least I won't be waking up at night wondering if I should have redone the bottom end while I had the whole thing apart.

John - there are guys who certainly know more about the internal guts here than I do, but it seems to me that the crank should be checked by someone who knows what to look for. The dents in your crank could create stress risers and you're right, it should be checked for balance and straightness. This is one area I would not screw around with because you don't want to do this again.
Rob

Absolutely Rob, it is going off for inspection and repair.. I neglected to mention that. Flywheel needs balancing, too.


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My hero!! Way ahead of me and good on ya.

Sorry to see this, John. But like you said, better to have caught this now.

Seeing this makes me even more nervous about what I'll find when I split my case.

Frank - have no fear, we're all miserable. I just stuck my 2.7 eng back in the car after a cam tower reseal and 9 mos of waiting. Good news is that it runs great. Bad news is that it's still leaking, and not a little. A little from where the repair was supposed to be but now, a new one, from what looks like the main seam on the back end of the eng case. A stream of oil, not drips. At mechanic's now who thinks its something minor. We'll see I guess!
Rob

Hey Frank - after seeing this, it would be difficult for me to suggest you shouldn't split yours to at least see what you've got. The truth shall set you free! Or something like that. [emoji41] I am just glad I am in a position to be philosophical about this. The only remaining wild card is the crank, but at least all the journals look to be in good shape. After going back through the notebook I got from the prior owner, there is nothing in there about the bottom end. So I really believe nothing was done at that time except maybe a reseal (there is RTV everywhere). Hard to believe anyone who had really inspected this motor would have not at least commented on the condition of the crank!


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You guys scare me! My motor is sitting on the stand in the garage waiting for me to figure out what to do.

I am learning a bunch from your experience before I dive into mine.

Casor - do you have any pictures of what you are talking about with your leaks?

I took my crank over to Jamie's tonight, and we measured the main and rod journals. Despite the scary looking damage in the pics above, the crank appears to be in spec. I have rod and main bearings, and a set of rod bolts on the way. I will be sending the crank, rods, flywheel, and pressure plate off to Ollie's for polish, balance, and the usual rejuvenation. Going to opt for cross-drilling/grooving the crank, too. Not a lot of wrenches turning right now, but the checkbook is getting a workout.


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I have heard of knife edging the crank to reduce resistance as it rotates in the case but I've not heard of cross drilling/grooving the crankshaft. Besides the obvious lightening the rotating mass, what else is that supposed to do?

Here is a thread that explains crank cross-drilling.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/582197-another-crank-cross-drill-question.html

One of Henry's posts from another thread puts it succinctly:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/4092032-post8.html

Gratuitous Sunday update, cleaned my pistons, still have some stubborn carbon that will need to be blasted off.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k7...psxjib8piv.jpg

Cylinders are next. Mine are Mahle Nikasil, so I'm looking to deglaze and clean them. Done a lot of reading here, and hot soapy water with red Scotchbrite (I assume this is Scotchbrite 07447) seems to be the consensus. Thinking I will run them through the ultrasonic with Dawn afterwards.

Still battling the slot-head screw side of the pressure relief valve on my old case. Got the other side off, but have yet to be able to extract the piston. The slot head screw doesn't want to move. Why is there always that One Last Thing that seems impossible? I have now kind of mangled the screw head. I wanted to get one of the pistons out to at least know what kind to order. When did they switch to the new style pistons?

I've got new coated Clevite rod bearings, German Glyco mains, and some ARP rod bolts on my parts rack. Getting excited about re-assembly. Any week now... :)

I think I dodged the proverbial bullet with my 2.7. Bill Boys has had it for a week or so and said the leaks were warped turbo valve covers (you know, the ones that aren't supposed to warp) and an aft O-ring behind the pulley that comes out of the case - drives the fan pulley. While he said the whole thing has to come apart to REALLY fix it, he has had success with cleaning the area and sealing it with schmutz - forget what he used. He called back TOD and said that it ain't leaking now after a good drive.

He said the the leaky aft rear O-ring makes it look like the central case seam was leaking but it wasn't. At least right now, anyway. I guess that'll be next.

To answer your question, I was so disgusted at time, I never took any pics, other than the "Exxon Valdez" size oil slick on the floor in my garage.

It's been too long since my last update. All of my machine work is back, got the heads done and drilled for MFI ports, crank has been cross-drilled, cleaned, and polished, flywheel resurfaced, I have virtually all of the parts I need for re-assembly. Pistons, bearings, and heads are over at jpnovak's for performance coating - having some problems with off-gassing from the piston tops bubbling the heat shield coating during the bake.

Meanwhile, I have been battling with the piston oil squirters in my new case. One is open, the other five are clogged, and no amount of Seafoam, Berryman's B12, compressed air, have had any effect. The other night, I took the case over to bathe in sundevil64's mondo ultrasonic cleaner to see if that helps. I've read lots of threads on this - I have not yet tried straight MEK. Berryman's has MEK - I was hoping that would be sufficient...

Mine came clean with carb cleaner. However, I have found that plain old gasoline does a great job of dissolving oil sludge and varnish. Much better than carb cleaner. Electrical contact cleaner has good old fashion carbon tetrachloride. If you are brave you might give that a try.

Took the case to Jamie's and with compressed air and proper technique, we were able to get them clear. A couple of them were stubborn and required some engineering with the rubber hose to get a good seal, allow the channel to the squirter to be open at the same time, and get enough pressure to break open the ball valve. Having two pair of hands made this much easier. The flavor of solvent was far less important than getting good air pressure, and that required some finesse.

We used a length of rubber fuel line and a rubber-tipped air nozzle on the compressor hose. The side of the case without oil galley channels was easy, just block one through-bolt hole with a finger, and the air nozzle pressed into the other one. The side of the case with the main bearing channels is tougher. The 7/16" ID rubber fuel line from Auto Zone could barely squeeze into the through-bolt holes; it was tight, we had to remove some of the rubber with a grinder and put oil on the hose to get it into the case far enough to block the main bearing channel opening, then apply air through the main meaning oil hole. Oddly, one of the squirter channels was drilled to the through bolt hole rather than the main bearing passage, so we we had to slit the hose to allow it to block the main oil galley passage but still allow the main bearing and squirter passages to communicate.

I would seem my case was unusually stubborn, perhaps because it has been out of service for a while (not my original case). The technique in the book was never going to work, five of mine were going nowhere just trying to spray solvent through them. I am documenting what we did here hoping it might help someone else - next time it will take me 15 minutes instead of two weeks. Thanks again, Jamie!


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