Split the case? broken studs :(

[xjoegtix]

Hey guys!
I went to adjust the valves the other day and a bunch of head studs fell out :^(

9 broken!!

The car is a 1980 911sc 3.0 euro/r0w
With 130k on the clock.

I've never driven the car more then a 1/4 mile and it was just at idle and it didn't smoke at all.


At first it seamed like only 5 broke and then they just kept snapping really really easy. The car sat for 15 years before I got it. Someone told me it could have been from sitting?





Anyway
I pulled the engine

Then pulled the heads


Then pulled the head studs. All except one that's flush with the case





Good thing I noticed is I guess I have reusable pistons and jugs and they look and feel great. I also could only fit a 6 thousandths shim in between them. I don't have the book in front of me but I believe I can use them until 10 thousandths? Should I re ring them and send the jugs to the machine shop with the heads for a valve job?




I'm nervous splitting the case. Im sure I could do a couple "while you're in there" things but do I realllyyy need to? How much more work and money will this be? I dont mind doing things the proper way. I'm just new to this engine and also new to working on the inside of a engine to this extent so I've been following everything the books have been telling me to do. But the books don't give you tips on things like do I need to split the case? it just tells you how to split the case.

What do you guys think? If love some tips.




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[JFairman]

Acetylene and Oxygen cutting torch. I would be afraid of melting or burning the aluminum case with that. I guess if you're careful and keep moving the flame around and never hold it in one spot it wouldn't melt anything.
Blue bottle map gas is the hottest flame I've used when doing that.
Hope everything worked out ok.

[xjoegtix]

I didn't pull the trigger on the torch and had it on low. Just enough to get it hot and had my brother turning studs. Everything went smooth for sure.


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[JFairman]

Cool. I can see you weren't pulling the trigger that blasts out more oxygen for cutting steel.
You know what you're doing, glad it went well

[xjoegtix]

Originally Posted by JFairman

Cool. I can see you weren't pulling the trigger that blasts out more oxygen for cutting steel.

You know what you're doing, glad it went well

I got a little nervous I messed everything up for a second tho after I read your comment ha!


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[Flat6pac]

The P&Cs you have are the good stuff
I wouldn't rering on a valve job because you're making the top end too good for the used bottom.
I would open the bottom to reseal and look at the mains, replace the IS bearings and chain ramps. The gasket set is $60 and you ll buy some of the seals anyway..
Mileage on a Euro car is really unknown because in the 80s the cars would be US speced with what was available used.
Bruce

[xjoegtix]

Originally Posted by Flat6pac

The P&Cs you have are the good stuff
I wouldn't rering on a valve job because you're making the top end too good for the used bottom.
I would open the bottom to reseal and look at the mains, replace the IS bearings and chain ramps. The gasket set is $60 and you ll buy some of the seals anyway..
Mileage on a Euro car is really unknown because in the 80s the cars would be US speced with what was available used.
Bruce

You would or wouldn't on a valve job? Should I not do a valve job? Or do a valve job and the Pistons?

Opening the bottom end isn't sounding to bad now that you put it that way.

My car still has the euro cluster in it its actually 219k on the dash. I was told a guy bout it brand new and was living across the pond and the. In 1985 him and his family moved here and brought the car with them.

Do you think that's not the actually cluster?


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[Flat6pac]

Do a valve job. You're going to need 12 guides and it checks everything out. What I meant was don't do a rering too because all good on top doesn't help the bottom live long and prosper...
I lived through all the cars coming through and DOTed and then there was the one free non certified per person and a lot of things were changed with out record.
Bruce

Almost always needs 12 guides

[xjoegtix]

Originally Posted by Flat6pac

Do a valve job. You're going to need 12 guides and it checks everything out. What I meant was don't do a rering too because all good on top doesn't help the bottom live long and prosper...

I lived through all the cars coming through and DOTed and then there was the one free non certified per person and a lot of things were changed with out record.

Bruce



Almost always needs 12 guides

Those look awesome! I just sent the heads out. Said $1500 and a week from today and I'll have them back. Average deal I believe?


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[Dick Shift]

did you get out the case stud broken flush with the case?

[xjoegtix]

Dick shift I havant gotten it out. I'm not sure where I should bring it locally to get it done.


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[Dick Shift]

Well then I'll share with you how I get the tough ones out.
I get a large nut with an ID just big enough to get my MIG welder rod in and weld the nut to whats left of the broken stud. Put enough washers under the nut to be welded on so when it turns it won't clash with the cylinder base lip. IF part of the the stud is broken below the case you will have to add metal to the end of the broken stud, to have something to weld the large nut to. It may take a few try's to get a good weld on the stud. You should be a fairly accomplished welder I might add. Once you have got a nut welded on. Have a helper heat the block gently,use a large breaker bar w/a socket that fits the OD of the nut you welded on and gently slowly back out the broken stud out of the block. 100% susses rate with this method.stud
s

[xjoegtix]

Dick shift that's a great idea! I'll give it a shot today


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[SCadaddle]

Disclaimer: I'm certainly no certified engine builder but I did assist in rebuilding the top end of my 82 SC. That being said,

At a minimum, I would replace the O rings around the engine case "through bolts"---the ones with the bolt head on one side and the acorn nuts on the other one at a time due to the use of heat with the torch to remove the lower head studs in such close proximity to those bolts and acorn nuts, and do not just loosen the acorn nut and pull the stud through the case before you use something like a dental pick to remove the old O ring on the acorn nut side----you don't want to pull that old O ring into the case while it is still on the bolt.

[Flat6pac]

What I can tell you is, nothing beats clean to work with. Power wash it then degrease it even if you have to go down to the car wash for power wash.
Bruce

[jkh2cpu]

A question for you, Bruce. I notice that you have just the
upper head studs installed in these shots. I'm wondering if
there is a reason for this. I'm rebuilding a case of unknown
history. Presently it's machined by a pro, but I wonder
about the case savers that were installed before I got the
engine... If I try to install the cylinders with all four studs
mounted, I get interference / really tight fit, but if I have
just three installed, no problem. I can always screw in the
remaining stud (with the loctite) later.

[Flat6pac]

After I get the cylinders mounted then I install the bottom row. If I have to pull a cylinder because the oil control ring slips out ala Carrera in particular I can easily remove the ring band after sliding cylinder back on. Just match stud depth with the top studs.
With aluminum case there is little reason for case savers except under way over torquing.
Bruce

[xjoegtix]

I wanted to wash the case but was nervous about it rusting.


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[SCadaddle]

Steam cleaning after making special covers for intake and exhaust and plugging every hole with plastic caps etc.

[Flat6pac]

I still prefer knowing and being able to tell you what's inside. Dealing with unknown history or made up history, a reseal takes out some of the 30+ years of unknowns.
Besides, you have a week before the heads get back.
Bruce