72 Oelklappe rebuild - engine build options

[profblue]

As a 911 virgin, I have secured a 72 tub w/o engine. Have now a reasonably priced 73 T short block that I intend to put into it.

As I need *all* additional engine parts, what is the most economical way? for instance, could I save some budget by going directly to EFI? Other ideas?
(I happy to pay for good S-type P/Cs, but with an MFI pump now trading at 4k on baybay, I'll have to sell the house )

[SoyRacer]

Buy a set of PMOs and keep it simple.

[wbyonder]

If your engine number is 6131061, please let me know.

I'm doing something similar to you, rebuilding a '73 core. Nothing is cheap on these cars nowadays!

[profblue]

tx for replies so far. going through Wayne's list on recommended upgrades, and the $$$ only keep adding...

@wbyonder - not your quoted #, but reasonably close - 613097x. Would be interesting to understand what choices you're making. Strategy is to build a daily driver.

[tharbert]

I hate to be a Debbie Downer but...let's just look at the short block first. Not knowing its provenance, you can't know the condition of the crank and bearings, oils squirters, etc. unless you split the case. I know some who trust in such things but I personally wouldn't want to sink a bunch of $$$ fleshing out the engine when it's possible the crank is out-of-spec from the get go. So, you split the case to take stock. Conventional wisdom suggests there are a number of things that have to be done before you put a magnesium case back together: case halves decked and align bored, spigots leveled, head studs Time serted. Then you "should" have a oil bypass mod and squirters checked. You'll be into the case at >$2k from the start and that's supposing the crank is OK. Mine wasn't... The short of it is, you may be better off looking for a 3.2 swap ESPECIALLY if you are looking for an "economical way" to do this. You can get a running 3.2 for way cheaper than building up a 2.4 or 2.7 short block from scratch.

They say no matter what you pay for it, a Porsche will be a $20k car. These days, I think $20k is a bit optimistic. As you suggested, 10 years ago, you could get whole MFI setup, pump, lines, throttle bodies and stacks for $1500. Now, just a core pump is getting crazy money. A patient man could find some bargains.

Whichever way you decide to go, good luck! This forum has all the technical know-how you'll need to get where you want to go.

[Dpmulvan]

+1 on what tharbert said.

[wbyonder]

profblue,

For my engine rebuild, I have a 73 case that I am having rebuilt to 2.7 RS specs. Haven't yet decided if I'm going with Mahle 2.7 RS P&Cs or with Nickies. I'm discussing this with my engine builder and will sort it out in time to figure what specs the MFI system will be rebuilt to, which is queued up for this fall.

I would also echo what tharbert says. If you want performance for less money, go with a 3.2. Otherwise, it may take some time to find deals on what you need.

[gtc]

I don't know... everyone wants a 3.2 these days, and it seems like you can't get one for $6k like you could just two or three years ago. I like the 2.7RS spec with carbs idea.

[tharbert]

He'll be into building a 2.x from a short block for WAY over $6k, like really way over. Mahle P/C are over $4k alone. Spec'd out Chinese cylinders with JE pistons are just under half that. Then you're looking at finding rebuilt/reconditioned heads, cams, towers, fuel system, alternator/fan and housing, tin... Seen the price of SSI's recently? The machine work alone will cost more than the $6k SC motor. The thing is, OP asked about an "economical way". There isn't one.

[Flat6pac]

Have you seen the price for 3.0/ 3.2 core engines
What I pay for core is twice what it was a couple years ago, but look at what people want for the complete car today. I can remember buying complete SCs with broken studs for $4 to $5K.
Bruce

[profblue]

although I see that the 3.2 is an economic route, i'm heading more towards a 2.4S high compr. Objective is a really street car, that won't see any tracks. Current thinking is:
- Webers (found some decent 40'ies out of a running 2.2s)
- P&Cs from JE
- S cams - although I like the charm of mod E / DC-30 with more response at mid-range rpms, to be decided - thoughs welcome!
- Exhaust will be a racing model from SCART (French based aftermaket; stellar sound)

What are your thoughts on the heads: have re-read Wayne's book, but still not decided - do I need 2.2/2.4S heads (difficult/$ to find), or are Ts fine (intent to go for 84mm P/Cs)?

[Henry Schmidt]

My favorite build for early long hood cars is the 3.2, short stroke twin plug, MFI.
Can be a budget buster.
Next in line is what we call the 24-50. It makes a great engine out of an early core with no need to weaken the case by boring the cylinder spigots.
The 24-50 is a 70.4 stroke (stock 2.4/2.7 crank) by 86mm bore.
It's about as big as you can go without boring the case and the Ps&Cs are reasonable.
We use Mod "S" cams, "S" head porting and 9.5:1 compression.
With a standard set of early heater boxes or SSI this configuration produces 180 RWHP. That translates to about 205 at the crank.
This configuration makes it's max horse power at 6400 and pulls hard all the way from around 2500 rpm.
You can build it with MFI or 40mm carbs and have a great, reliable engine.
I built my last two personal long hood cars with this engine (all be it twin plug for the WOW) and was pleased beyond belief.

[profblue]

Many thanks, Henry. 86mm sounds like a great idea, I will go for that!
Meanwhile, I have been sourcing the most hard-to-get items (one paycheck at a time ), and it is coming along nicely (crankshaft, turbo valve covers, later carrera oil pump, etc).

However, was in for a bit of a shock when I thought to receive reconditioned 2.4T heads from a '73 this morning. They were apparently from a K-Jetronic, with 46/40 valves and 30/33 ports. When I saw the date stamp of "12/73" it got me already suspiscous, and measuring showed actually 32/33 ports => to me, these are 2.7 heads, also confirmed by inner head surface diam of 107mm, rather than 97mm.

Now, although I've read some conflicting messages, I heard "...you can also use any 2.4 or 2.7 head on the 2.0 litre engines with some machining on the head sealing surface to match the cylinders being used" - Can you guys confirm??
Can I use these for my 2.4L/86mm P&C's? if yes, how does the matching surface need to be amended? Or is it "return to sender"?(the alternative of going for a full 2.7 crossed my mind, but not temped yet)

[Flat6pac]

The heads from 2.2 to 2.7 all have the same sealing surfaces. The 2.7 CIS S heads have great intake and exhaust size.
Bruce