3.6 upgrade

[Joe Bob]

I have a 91 3.6 stock in an 83 SC with a beefed up 915 and suspension. . What's the best bang for the buck for some hp w/o sacrificing drive ability?

3.8 P&Cs, cams, ITBs? Any other recommendations? "Guesstimate" on parts and labor?

[0396]

How about RS cams, reprogram ECU, RS valves, better headers. When the time comes, my Vram is headed to Steve Weiner @ Rennsport Systems in Portland for the work. Good luck with your search for a few extra tq and hp -.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

I have a 91 3.6 stock in an 83 SC with a beefed up 915 and suspension. . What's the best bang for the buck for some hp w/o sacrificing drive ability?

3.8 P&Cs, cams, ITBs? Any other recommendations? "Guesstimate" on parts and labor?

Budget?

Thats the very first question I ask all of my clients because that's what frames the whole conversation. While its certainly fun to BS about all the neat hardware options, if the budget isn't there to use it, its basically a waste of time.

[safe]

Rs flywheel, maf-kit, ecu remap. Cup bypass exhaust.
Then you should be somewhere 280-300 and have an awesome throttle response.

[saxen]

Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport

Budget?

Thats the very first question I ask all of my clients because that's what frames the whole conversation. While its certainly fun to BS about all the neat hardware options, if the budget isn't there to use it, its basically a waste of time.

exactly my thoughts.
a 3.8 sounds great, however you may gain 20-50hp (which is awesome!!!!!) but it may cost you nearly $20,000 (not so awesome)
what are your goals? what kind of driving do you do? do you daily the car?

taking weight off the car makes a huge difference and its nearly free. some header work and a chip may give you that extra bit along with some sound.
cams? great, that may become and expensive "while your in there" kind of experience.

keep us posted though! cant wait to see what you do.

[Joe Bob]

Already dumped sound proofing, using light weight carpeting, it has a chip, glass fenders and bumpers.

Sport cat, 993 dual HEs

While this isn't my my first rodeo, I just wondered who has done a strictly bolt on 3.6/964 upgrade. The engine runs great but has been in this configuration for 10 years. The ride goes like stink, now. But like everyone else always looking for more.

Specifically, ITBs and cams....is the mod worth it?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Already dumped sound proofing, using light weight carpeting, it has a chip, glass fenders and bumpers.

Sport cat, 993 dual HEs

While this isn't my my first rodeo, I just wondered who has done a strictly bolt on 3.6/964 upgrade. The engine runs great but has been in this configuration for 10 years. The ride goes like stink, now. But like everyone else always looking for more.

Specifically, ITBs and cams....is the mod worth it?

Itb's are used so that happier cams can be used, happier cams need rpm to do much, to get more rpm the bottom end and oiling need to be addressed.

You can use RS(hydraulic) or SS(mechanical) cams w/ stock intake and slightly raised rpm. This along w/ a chip that is designed to work w/ the mods provides a worthwhile but not extraordinary pop.

A good valve job and possibly a valve upgrade make it even better.

here you can see some locally derived torque curves at the rear wheels for 3 different engines, all are 993 964 would likely see similar results, the 3.6 is a before and after w/ a quality valve job(Rothsport) and RS cams/valves, the biggest bump is from the 3.6RSR p/c but w/ a 915 i'd not go that route(been there done that, decided to go back to 3.6). All have custom Steve Wong chips


Another probably worthwhile change is to free up the intake and exhaust a bit. If you have 964 intake a mass air conversion will clean up the intake tract, the exhaust is going to depend on legal constraints, 993 headers and catless is pretty decent w/ up to RS/SS cams, Headers can work well w/ decently happy cams. If you have SSI exhaust that alone strangles a 3.6 as revs build.

[gduke2010]

I am thinking about sport cams and sport valves, too on my 3.6 993 installed in an 85. Cams $600 ea., I think the sport valve package was $1800 .

[safe]

RS cams, that's the same as normal cams in a 3.6, except for lack of ps-drive. Right?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by safe

RS cams, that's the same as normal cams in a 3.6, except for lack of ps-drive. Right?

for 864RS, that is true
for 993RS, no

The 993RS cams have a little more lift and duration than either stock 993 or 964 cams ,
993 and 993RS are for hyd lifters and so have somewhat different ramp geometry.

964 and SS cams are for mechanical lifters,

SS are the most happy cams that are compatible w/ oe 964/993 mass air sensors and intake design

[safe]

So stock cams are different between 964 and 993 to?

[3literpwr]

Boost!

[gduke2010]

If you want the ss camps in a 993, you have to convert to mechanical rockers. The cost adds up significantly. I was thinking of sport cams for hydraulic lifters and the sport valve package and an enlarged throttle body and chip. I already have B&B headers.

[safe]

Originally Posted by gduke2010

If you want the ss camps in a 993, you have to convert to mechanical rockers. The cost adds up significantly. I was thinking of sport cams for hydraulic lifters and the sport valve package and an enlarged throttle body and chip. I already have B&B headers.

Enlarged throttle body?
Is there an inexpensive replacement or something custom and would it really be any gain?

[tocobill]

Converting to mech lifters is not all that expensive. I did it on my build. I had a set of 3.0-3.2 rockers converted to work with my 993 system by John Dougherty. IIRC it was less then $500. I kept all the hydraulic lifter stuff encase I decide to swap back later down the road.

[safe]

Originally Posted by tocobill

Converting to mech lifters is not all that expensive. I did it on my build. I had a set of 3.0-3.2 rockers converted to work with my 993 system by John Dougherty. IIRC it was less then $500. I kept all the hydraulic lifter stuff encase I decide to swap back later down the road.

A friend of mine converted non-hydraulic rockers to use as mechanical rockers in a 993 by pressing out the bushing, turning the bushing 90 degrees (so the oil feed hole is blocked), pressing it in again.
A 993 RSR rocker is just an old style rocker without oil feed hole, but to the price of 5 rockers...

[tocobill]

Pretty sure that what was done. New bushing installed but they had oiling mods performed in the bushing. Ill post a picture later. Yeah, I remember seeing the kit from PMS for $1500 -$2K for the upgrade. Craziness.

[gduke2010]

Originally Posted by safe

Enlarged throttle body?
Is there an inexpensive replacement or something custom and would it really be any gain?

Saw on on the FVD Farnbaucken site. Need to check to see if there is any real benifit. Maybe, Bill V will chime in

[Mick_D]

A change in the size of the throttle body throat changes airflow turbulence. Turbulence-free airflow isn't what we really want, but we don't want too much turbulence either.

Everything I know about this particular area ( it's really very little ) is in the area of how it affects the tune on a motor with forced induction. Naturally-aspirated cars with no chip controlling them would see little to no benefit, I am sure.