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Kartoffelkopf
 
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Threebond 1194 - Separating Case Halves

Afternoon guys,

Engine is deconstructed - long story which I'll continue to document on my build thread - but embarassingly, a wrist pin locking spring pinged inside the case when I was removing the pistons....bloody typical.

I've been fishing around for hours now with various magnets and torches, drain plug out, oil return tubes out....damned if I can see it.

There's only so much patience I've got, I may have to resort to splitting the case to retrieve it. Very reluctant to do this, as I had zero leaks from the bottom end and #8 bearing.

I used Threebond 1194 to seal the case halves - before I even start, has anyone got any tips for splitting a case that's been sealed with this stuff?

Or does it release easier than I'm anticipating?

Thanks
Spencer
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Old 07-02-2016, 07:36 AM
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I've opened them before, splitting isn't going to be a problem. Now, if you want to remove the sealant, that's a problem...
I clean excess then reapply to both clean surfaces.
Bruce
Old 07-02-2016, 07:53 AM
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Kartoffelkopf
 
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Thanks Bruce, that's encouraging.....I can apply plenty of elbow-grease to the cleaning, so long as I can get it opened.

Interesting you say about re-applying to both surfaces - in my search earlier on this subject I saw a similar thread about removing cam carrier from heads, and (iirc) Jeff Alton and I think Henry said that they only apply to a single surface....not trying to be at all controversial or stir-it-up, just want to be absolutely sure that I don't have to do all this a 3rd time, lol!

Cheers
S


ETA - Does 1194 have a shelf-life like Loctites flange sealant?

I know that 1194 has been superceded by 1184, but it's not so readily available over in the UK (and I've got a ruddy great tube of 1194 in my toolbox...so long as it hasn't gone hard in the tube)

Last edited by Spenny_b; 07-02-2016 at 08:56 AM..
Old 07-02-2016, 08:52 AM
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Go get a cheap inspection camera for $50 and see if you can locate it before splitting your case
Old 07-03-2016, 05:17 AM
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+1 on the cheap inspection camera. A few friends have these and have found them very useful. Here's an example:

https://www.amazon.com/DBPOWER-Waterproof-Borescope-Endoscope-Inspection/dp/B01DIQ6K2O
Old 07-03-2016, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpmulvan View Post
Go get a cheap inspection camera for $50 and see if you can locate it before splitting your case
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanaudical
+1 on the cheap inspection camera. A few friends have these and have found them very useful. Here's an example:

https://www.amazon.com/DBPOWER-Waterproof-Borescope-Endoscope-Inspection/dp/B01DIQ6K2O
Yup already have one thanks guys....battery on iPad was flat yesterday...it falls in the "ok" range of usefulness...not great focal length but it may be good enough to spot a sodding big steel clip.
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Old 07-03-2016, 08:16 AM
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Usually you can roll it over a few times on the engine stand and it will appear.
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Old 07-03-2016, 09:37 AM
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Read the directions on the tube, I know Honda bond and yamabond tell you both flanges.
I did open a rebuild by a national builder because the centerline was leaking, the flange sealant was applied only to one flange, skimmed over and never sealed to the other flange.
Just an observation..
Bruce
Old 07-03-2016, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john walker's workshop View Post
Usually you can roll it over a few times on the engine stand and it will appear.
Yeah, you'd think eh?.....My feckin luck, not a chance. I had a good hour using the borescope into the case and observing on the iPad. Nothing. Nada. Nowt. I'm now starting to wonder whether it fell straight through and out the bottom, but there was nothing on the floor or anywhere else.

The ************* engine, I'm beyond ******* off with it, it's the ******* nightmare that won't end. So tempted to sell the bloody thing. Having just bought an F10 gen M5 as the DD, I have to say, I'm wondering whether this thing now has a valid place in the garage once it's built back up. On any given road, despite favourable power to weight of the 964T, I'm pretty damn sure that the M5 would monster it (still cant get my head around how bloody good it is, chassis as well). The Exige then covers the small/agile/kart role. Again, the 911 wouldn't see which way the Exige went on a typical country lane blast.

Sorry, just completely pissed with this car at the moment, very little love left after 4yrs of giving it everything I've got.
Old 07-03-2016, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat6pac View Post
Read the directions on the tube, I know Honda bond and yamabond tell you both flanges.
I did open a rebuild by a national builder because the centerline was leaking, the flange sealant was applied only to one flange, skimmed over and never sealed to the other flange.
Just an observation..
Bruce
Hmm, interesting, thanks again Bruce, noted for the rebuild process. Likely to be during the autumn and lower ambient temps, so I should have a decent window before it starts to skin....any summer heat that the UK may eventually receive, will be long gone.
Old 07-03-2016, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenny_b View Post
. Nowt. I'm now starting to wonder whether it fell straight through and out the bottom, but there was nothing on the floor or anywhere else.
Go to harbour freight and buy a magnetic floor sweeper.
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Old 07-03-2016, 05:18 PM
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Yes, it says to apply to both surfaces. I never have, and have never had a problem. I would think it would be hard to tell on disassembly that it was only applied to one side. Some things to consider when using this as a case sealant. The first is that it skins over relatively quickly, so doing both sides you would really need to hurry. Second, I think it may easy to get too much sealant if you applied to both sides, but I guess if you were very careful you could minimize this risk.

Cheers
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Old 07-03-2016, 07:55 PM
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Before you start tearing it down.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenny_b View Post
Yeah, you'd think eh?.....My feckin luck, not a chance. I had a good hour using the borescope into the case and observing on the iPad. Nothing. Nada. Nowt. I'm now starting to wonder whether it fell straight through and out the bottom, but there was nothing on the floor or anywhere else.

The ************* engine, I'm beyond ******* off with it, it's the ******* nightmare that won't end. So tempted to sell the bloody thing. Having just bought an F10 gen M5 as the DD, I have to say, I'm wondering whether this thing now has a valid place in the garage once it's built back up. On any given road, despite favourable power to weight of the 964T, I'm pretty damn sure that the M5 would monster it (still cant get my head around how bloody good it is, chassis as well). The Exige then covers the small/agile/kart role. Again, the 911 wouldn't see which way the Exige went on a typical country lane blast.

Sorry, just completely pissed with this car at the moment, very little love left after 4yrs of giving it everything I've got.


Spenny,

Before you give up and decide to tear it apart, I have a suggestion that might convince you to think and consider this option. If that mysterious wrist pin lock spring is inside the engine, it will move and settle down due to gravity. I have right now a complete engine that is assembled less sealant for the mock-up assembly. Did an experiment by throwing a wrist pin lock spring inside the assembled engine.

If you could turn the crankshaft several times without any interferance then you could say that it is not wedged or in between gears or moving parts. So when I rotated the motor upside down like what Mr. Walker suggested the wrist pin lock spring keeps dropping down at the bottom side.

Please do not attempt this "unconventional test" on a sealed motor. The motor I used is fully rebuilt but unsealed at the moment. I could open the engine if I misplaced the test wrist pin lock spring.

If the 'missing lock spring' is not located inside the crankcase, it is some where outside. I have lost a few of these before until I started using a tiny forcep during installation. I did this test to satisfy my curiosity in case a similar incident happens to me. Keep us posted.

Tony
Old 07-03-2016, 07:59 PM
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Thanks Tony, really appreciate you conducting such a test for me (and my sanity!)

I have half-rotated the crank a number of times but of course, with a single pair of hands you do need to keep stopping to ensure the rods don't snag the spigots and to keep tension on the timing chains.

So...my next test will employ the (not so) glamorous assistance of my Brother and Father, so that I can freely rotate the internals.

Will keep you posted.

To Marks point about a magnetic floor sweeper...good call...to start with I will roll out the chassis and lift the pit-boards from the floor....the floor itself is concrete and very clean, but maybe it did drop right the way through #6 spigot and out of #3, and into a crack between boards....in my panic and fantastic barrage of swearing, maybe I missed the "ping" of it hitting the ground/board?

Again, will keep you posted.

Bloody engine. [grabs beer]
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Old 07-04-2016, 06:55 AM
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So, did you find it?
Old 07-25-2016, 02:10 PM
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Those evil clips have a way of traveling long distances when you are "testing their aerodynamic properties". I was assembling pistons last week, and had one slip on me. I thought I heard it hit the wall in front of my bench, but couldn't be quite sure. I found it a week later in the middle of my driveway about 30 feet away, and not in a direction I would have guessed from where it was launched. Is it possible it pinged off the case rather than fell into it?
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Old 07-25-2016, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedsilva View Post
So, did you find it?
Haha, yeah I did! Have been meaning to type an update on this and the main build log. Dad, my brother and I spent an hour holding timing chains, rotating crank and holding rods out of the way. We were just about to give up and concede that it had done a Lord Lucan (disappered into thin air). We tried flipping the engine over, turning it slow, then fast...you name it.

All of a sudden my brother and I heard the same metallic ping. Cue the jaw dropped stare at each other and the cheeky grin....just to test, we got a spare clip and dropped it onto floor. Nope, different noise, both agreed. Dropped it into engine stand? Nope not the same. Great, this could be the Bingo moment. Now handling everything like (I hope) a surgeon would treat a client, we got the torches out again and finally we saw it lying on one of the internal walls underneath the chimney section. One strong magnet later, and I have it in my grubby mits!

[cue another beer....a celebratory one this time]

Thanks chaps, appreciate the input.

Still no more progress on the engine rebuild itself, but that's likely my autumn project now.
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Old 08-15-2016, 05:17 AM
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Courage Spencer ! ;-)
Old 08-15-2016, 05:55 AM
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The Porsche is jealous of the M5. No other rational explanation for this.
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Old 08-17-2016, 07:14 AM
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