Another first engine drop - progress to follow
 

Dropped the engine out of my 87 Carrera yesterday.

I had my literature ready including the Bentley, and Wayne's 101 Projects books as well as more info from previous posts on this forum. It took two of us about 5.5 hours to do it.

1. We backed up the car on ramps and followed the Bentley to disconnect everything from the engine from above and below.

2. Used an ATV/motorcycle jack with a piece of ply on top that went under the engine, and a smaller hydraulic jack under the transmission, and lowered it to the ground.

3. It was then when we realized there wasn't enough clearance to pull it out below the bumper, so we opted to remove the bumper, and it (luckily) worked with just enough space to scrape by above the MAF with about 1/2" to spare.

Upon having the engine out I noticed that the firewall side of the engine tin is completely rusted out. I will be removing them all today and inspect the condition of the other tin pieces.

I will need to find a replacement for the bad ones and I was wondering what my best bet would be? Junkyard? Buy new from some place? These things seem to be pricey especially considering they are only a piece of stamped sheet metal.

As you can see on the photos it will need a bit of cleaning also....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1478367943.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1478368103.jpg

Hey, Good work. I will be following this closely as I am currently doing the research/maths for my own Engine drop and rebuild on my 1977 2.7S. I will do the leak down test tomorrow to hopefully get a better idea of the condition of my motor.

Regarding your rusty tinware, I would suggest buying new parts were possible and I think Pelican my have them too. The chances of finding that in a scrap yard could be very slim??

Good luck and keep us posted.

You have a better chance of finding good sheet metal than if you had a C2.
Buy from the lower or central dry states.
Bruce

I pressure washed the engine and the transmission, and separated the transmission from the engine.

Also removed the tinware around the engine. The one by the transmission was completely rusted out and the left side one also needs to be replaced. I think I can re-use the other pieces, but they will get a new set of screws and probably a paintjob.

The dirty transmission cleaned up quite nicely.

Noticed that still have the original setup for the clutch fork. This is going to be a good time to update it, and probably do the clutch as well, while it's out.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1478475666.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1478475769.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1478476086.jpg

It's been some time now since I started this thread, and since then the top of the engine has been disassembled.

I also took the parts down to the machine shop where they cleaned all the bits, rebuilt the heads and honed the cylinders.

I have most of the new parts for assembly, and should have the powdercoated parts back this week as well.

Here are some pix
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482987743.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482987743.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482987743.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482987743.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482987743.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482987743.jpg

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Here is the main reason this had to come apart. TWO broken studs.

Check out the spark plugs. Aren't these the most miserable looking things you have seen? I wonder how many miles they have on them.

Also did a leakdown test. Oddly the cylinders with the broken head studs were not that bad.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482988651.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482988651.jpg
Cylinder 1

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482988651.jpg
Cylinder 2

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482988651.jpg
Cylinder 3

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482988651.jpg
Cylinder 4

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482988651.jpg
Cylinder 5

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482988651.jpg
Cylinder 6

The new parts are here. It's a big pile.

There are some more that are not included on the photo, and I am sure there will still be more that I need...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482989010.jpg

The parts from the machine shop are back as well.

They cleaned up really nicely. Even the top of the pistons are nice and shiney.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482989281.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482990183.jpg

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Two of the valves needed to be replaced. Here is one of the two

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482990183.jpg
...and here is the second

very nice, congrats!!!

How hard was it to change the studs?

Be careful with the Victor-Reinz oil pump seals; the fat, square-edged o-ring looking ones. Some were made too short and don't seal resulting in no oil pressure.

Thanks for the heads up :cool:

OP, good job!

Keep us Posted, Doing a complete rebuild myself, may go 10:5.1 or 3.4L depending on shop's findings :-)

Not hard at all with the Snap On Stud extractor/installer, even for the broken ones, you use the smaller one and it will bite right on to the shaft. and pull those suckas right out.

OP, btw, I noticed your Gear Box top vent, it appears to be cock eyed, hole should face forward, just FYI.

What lining surface treatment do these cylinders have? I was told it is difficult to rehone 911 cylinders unless you get them re-plated with nikasil?

Search Nikasil and Alusil to determine what you have.

Nikasil don't need rehoning.

Thanks for the comments guys. Please see my responses below...

>Babinuk: Thanks. The studs came out really easily. We used a stud removal tool similar to a chuck. Most of them came out at room temp, but had to heat the case on a few.

>Tippy: Thanks for the heads up. I bought some extra gaskets as well. I think this one was included. We'll pay attention to it.

>Draco: Thanks for the heads up about the transmission vent. I'll take a look.

>Mikedsilva: I do have Nikasil, and I did quite a bit of research on them. The opinion regarding honing them seems to be split but from what I learned, as long as the shop has the proper diamond tool that is the right way to do it. The shop I used does have it.

BTW, you gave me a brain fart, I wonder if I can do a leak down after head install just to make sure everything is square and free of leaks?

I need to cc my cylinders - heads.

I got my parts back from powdercoating. Here are some pix.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483507472.jpg
These are mostly the tin pieces plus a few others. Did them in glossy so dirt doesn't stick to them as much.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483507472.jpg
I always thought the fan is such a prominent element when you pop the engine lid that it should look the part as well. I did the valve covers red as well since I was at it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483507472.jpg
Sanded down the PORSCHE so it stand out more

Got my clutch today also. Came directly from Sachs.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483508230.jpg

Signing up to watch your progress..... nice work btw

engine build
 

So far sooo niccce!

Respectfully, ditch the Reinz gasket set and order a Wrightwood one from a reputable engine builder. Reinz= junk.

would you mind posting the itemized costs for the machine shop? (was wondering about how much is charged for cylinder honing, head grinding, etc...)

I'm looking at the engine hanger in the first pic. Why do the hanger bolt sleeves at the end of the bar look screwed up?

^^^Because the bolt seized, OP you need to address that too :-(

Seriously? From putting a torch on the sleeve and then hitting it with an impact? :eek:

It's been a while since I updated my progress so here it goes. I have the engine assembled which went very well. I ended up buying a bunch of extra original Porsche seals and gaskets to make sure I will not have any leaks. We also measured the piston clearance using Wayne's trick which was right on spec. Installed new oil lines and put in turbo restrictor fittings, replaced chain ramps, replaced the hard to reach sensors, put in the new spark plugs etc... it's a long shopping list...

Here are some pix.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492317387.JPG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492317387.JPG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492317387.jpg

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Also started cleaning up the engine bay including the oil tank area. Unfortunately the oil lines going to the thermostat were pretty rusty, so we pulled out the tank and the rusty parts. The oil tank got "hot tanked" and I painted the exterior with a high temperature paint. Along with the new oil lines I opted for the rubber gasket and, fabric covered hoses that will get replaced before the engine goes in.

As you can see on the picture, the glue on the fire wall is quite ugly and I had already bought a new foam insulation pad which will get installed, but I am considering going with the aluminum style instead...

More pictures below.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492319445.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492319445.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492319445.jpg

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492319445.jpg

As I was cleaning the transmission, I found the factory sticker that has the matching VIN on it. I thought that's cool. For the tranny I got a new gear selector shaft seal and a fork update kit with bushings to replace the failed original bearings.

Check it out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492321208.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492321208.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492321208.jpg

One more engine picture

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492322655.jpg

Why did you use anti-seize on those threads ?, really bad practice ....oh dear.

Thanks for the comment, I guess it's up to debate but according to Wayne Dempsey; lubricating the head nuts (on the nut side) is a good idea to ensure correct torque values. It's in his engine rebuilding book on pages 151-152 including a picture.

ARP also recommends their own lube to make certain the torque will be per spec.

Wow, purty :D

Indeed - looking very nice. Can't wait to see it back in the car and running. Good luck with the start-up.

The Porsche Workshop manual for the 964 states that the head stud and nut contact surface be covered with Copper Paste prior to installation. The P fix it DVD outlines the same method. Looks like you are fine.

Going back in the hole

The transmission is already installed and the whole thing is balanced on the motorcycle jack
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505797235.jpg

The engine is bolted in.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1505797235.jpg

any updates on the trans?
Saw you got a new clutch, but was curious how the install went.

No updates on the tranny. It does have a factory LSD and we just drained it and refilling it with fresh gear oil.

We did change the rear seal because the dust cap looked like it was leaking and also had to update the guide shaft that slides inside the clutch. Apparently there had been an update and the original does not fit into the new clutch. There is a service bulletin for this update.

Installing the trans went really easily after we figured out that we needed the new guide shaft. Used tape to hold the fork in place while sliding the transmission on, which was removed at the end. The new upgraded fork feels nice and moves easily.

Since I have all new brakes as well I can't tell how the pedal feels yet since there is no fluid in the system yet and the hydraulic clutch is feeding off the there as well. In fact my entire suspension and brakes have been redone. I will probably start a new thread on that in the technical forum section.

Can I ask about having your parts cleaned up and getting the tin around the engine redone??
What type of cleaning service did you have performed to get them all cleaned up?
I will need to have the same exact things done to my engine and I want to make sure I am asking the shops the right questions to make sure everything is cleaned properly.

I also want to know about the tin... did you have some surface rust? If so... did you clean it off yourself or did the place that did the powercoating clean the surfaces?

Sorry for all the questions... I'm starting to remove my engine and unfortunately no one I know has done similar work like you have done.

Not really sure what you mean about "cleaning service".

The tin parts were sandblasted and powdercoated. There were a couple pieces too rusty and I replaced those with some good used parts I found. Since I had the valve covers, fan and fan housing powder coated they also cleaned those up.

The machine shop took care of the cleaning of the cylinders, pistons and cylinder heads. I also had them hot tank the oil tank, and some additional bolt on parts.

For the rest of the engine you have to use some elbow grease....
You might want to buy Wayne's books if you haven't already done so for some tips. He's got a section talking about cleaning.

What 'type' of cleaning did they do? That's what I'm looking to have done locally, but I need to be specific to some of my local shops as to 'HOW' I want them cleaned...
Also, what was the cost of having them cleaned?
And did you have to completely dismantle the spring, valves, etc...??? (Looks like you just gave them the entire head assembly)