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-   -   Trakrat's 3.2 Engine Rebuild (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/974356-trakrats-3-2-engine-rebuild.html)

Trakrat 10-17-2017 05:07 PM

Trakrat's 3.2 Engine Rebuild
 
I'll be disassembling and rebuilding my engine for the first time and will be posting pics to this thread.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508288708.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508288708.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508288708.JPG

Trakrat 10-17-2017 05:14 PM

The reason for the rebuild was due to an over rev miss shift that accidentally shifted to 2nd instead of 4th.
The engine continued to run until I put the clutch in and came to a stop. Engine died with oil light and battery light on. Trying to start it would turn the engine and I would get a very minor pop out of the exhaust, but nothing more.

Other issues that seemed to be apparent before this happened is that cylinders 1-3 seemed to run lean while 4-6 seemed to run rich. The exhaust valves on 1-3 were black and oily looking while the exhaust valves on 4-6 were white and powdery looking.

Trakrat 10-17-2017 05:17 PM

Already removed the following:
exhaust
valve covers
spark plug wires and distributor cap
air filter
A/C components - will be completely removing all A/C components throughout the car

no broken rockers have been noticed, no broken valve stems have been found either.
Other than some minor sideways play in the rockers at 1,3, and 5... nothing else has been noticeable.

Trakrat 10-17-2017 05:27 PM

after removing the transmission from the engine, I noticed the following..
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508289905.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508289905.JPG
Apparently someone used some vice grips in the past to pull this stud out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508289905.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508289905.JPG
Clutch assembly looks real good... still a lot of meat left. Almost looks new. I'll have to track down some documentation and see if I can figure out when the PO recently had this replaced.

Trakrat 10-17-2017 05:33 PM

Removed some wiring... seems this has been done before due to the red paint marked for placement...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508290358.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508290358.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508290358.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508290358.JPG

Trakrat 10-17-2017 05:34 PM

I removed this as well... does anyone know what it's proper name is? I need to document it, but not sure what to call it...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508290457.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508290457.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508290457.JPG

Trakrat 10-17-2017 05:37 PM

What's the best way to clean up the small screws and other fastening hardware?
Should I just buy some sort of bench wheel to polish them? or is there some other easy way to get them cleaned up again? I plan on being very detailed on making sure every part is cleaned before reassembly.

fanaudical 10-17-2017 06:27 PM

Bench wheels and ultrasonic cleaning sometimes remove the plating.

What works for me for small screws and hardware is to put them in a quart jar (or several smaller jars if you need to keep them separated/organized) and soak in full-strength Pinesol. Swirl them around every now and then and pull them out with a magnet. Rinse with warm water, dry between a couple shop towels, and give them a shot of WD-40 or similar. Pinesol is cheap, nonflammable, and cuts grease/oil.

You can do similar with kerosene if you prefer (no water for drying).

Josh D 10-17-2017 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakrat (Post 9780371)
What's the best way to clean up the small screws and other fastening hardware?
Should I just buy some sort of bench wheel to polish them? or is there some other easy way to get them cleaned up again? I plan on being very detailed on making sure every part is cleaned before reassembly.

Tool vendors like Harbor Freight sell small parts vibration tumblers. Good for small brackets and hardware. I here it takes them awhile though.

bpu699 10-18-2017 04:24 AM

If you polish, brush, or abrasively clean the nuts/screws then they will immediately rust. Ask me how I know.

Just alcohol or other cleaners works fine, unless you plan to replate.

You can get some zinc spray in a can at homedepot, to spray the larger bolt heads its, as long as you are ok with a flat grey finish...

Otherwise, just buy new hardware...

Trakrat 10-18-2017 05:18 AM

anyone know what that part is in #6 post's pics???

I need to document it properly.

Speedy Squirrel 10-18-2017 08:00 AM

Brake vacumn line and check valve.

Speedy Squirrel 10-18-2017 08:03 AM

I think we are about at the same point on builds. You are about to find out that you need the cam nut removal tool, just FYI.

Trakrat 10-18-2017 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel (Post 9781122)
I think we are about at the same point on builds. You are about to find out that you need the cam nut removal tool, just FYI.

Yep... I need to order that. But from what I can tell I do NOT need the special claw type device??

Speedy Squirrel 10-18-2017 10:08 AM

You do not. We use the holder with the pins, and a socket.

Trakrat 10-19-2017 01:25 PM

So I decided to look around and see if I could see any damage to the engine from my overrev.
Rockers look good, valves are intact, no pieces of anything fell out of the engine... yet.

However I did notice this when looking through one of the oil tubes... not sure what those teeth marks are (not even sure what I'm looking at).... any ideas??
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508448337.JPG

bpu699 10-19-2017 01:47 PM

oil pump shaft...

Tippy 10-19-2017 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 9783015)
oil pump shaft...

......connecting to the IMS shaft

Trakrat 10-21-2017 12:57 PM

Worked on removing the intake runners and fuel delivery system...
Used Bentley's manual... everything was spot on, though there were a few things I probably didn't need to do at the time that the book mentions it.

Disconnected these hoses that were attached to a bracket on the air filter box
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619206.JPG

Bentley says to make a note of the shims used on the fan belt pulley before taking it off... 3 on the outside, 4 on the inside.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619206.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619206.JPG

One thing that didn't make sense is that Bentley says to disconnect the ground wire from the alternator in order to remove the intake runners... you don't need to this step yet... and can remove it when you remove the shroud and fan and alternator together.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619206.JPG

Trakrat 10-21-2017 01:00 PM

I unhooked these springs, as I wasn't sure about them being still on there.. I only unhooked them from the flywheel side.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619552.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619552.JPG

Finally.. after following the Bentley manual to remove all the wiring connections, I was finally able to pull this off. (Note that it took a couple of hard hits with a soft mallet to loosen it up from the studs.)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619552.JPG

Trakrat 10-21-2017 01:06 PM

Here's the engine with the intake runners off...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619821.JPG

Interestingly, the intake valves look pretty good. I'm wondering if these were replaced at some point???

cylinder 1
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619821.JPG

cylinder 2
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619821.JPG

cylinder 3
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619821.JPG

cylinder 4
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619821.JPG

cylinder 5
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619821.JPG

cylinder 6
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508619821.JPG

Trakrat 10-21-2017 01:10 PM

Finally... the engine shroud and fan/alternator came out as one piece...
Not sure how to get the wiring out of the shroud though... :confused:
I guess I'll have to disconnect it from within the alternator??
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508620132.JPG

next step... removing the oil cooler
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508620132.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508620132.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508620132.JPG

Trakrat 10-21-2017 01:20 PM

So I found a local media blaster...
I was going to take as much of my engine parts to him that I can have blasted and cleaned.

What type of media should I have them use on what? I want my fan assembly, valve covers, engine tin, pulley cover, intake runners, and anything else I can give them to be blasted clean.

Any specific media I should request on any specific parts?? (FYI... I've already searched here and learned to NOT use sand)
Some of the options they provide:
Aluminum Oxide
cornstarch
walnut shells
glass bead
plastic bead

bpu699 10-21-2017 01:30 PM

When you get to the point where you are taking off the pulley and the intermediate shaft cover, if you could take a pic of the parting line where the left and right hand case meet I would appreciate it...

When I was test fitting my case, I noted that the flywheel side machined face lined up perfectly, and that side is pinned. All the machining for the flywheel seal was perfectly lined up.

On the pulley side, one side of the case stuck forward enough that it was noticeable. .005 maybe? More? I.e., the face where the pulley seal insert was perfectly round, but both sides weren't flush. One side is proud. Thought that was odd, but didn't see any way to fix it.

If one were to slide the left hand case forward .005, then the flywheel side would be out .005. Moot point anyway, as the flywheel side is pinned and can't be slid forward. You definitely want the flywheel side perfect as it has a supply bearing.

Just seems odd Porsche would machine this face not perfectly flat. It's out enough that it's noticeable, but clearly didn't seem to effect anything for 60k miles.... almost as if they machined the pulley side, case moved .005, and then they machined the flywheel side and pinned it...

Anyone else notice that?

Trakrat 10-21-2017 01:33 PM

Other observations I noticed... the inside of the intake manifold/runners is very oily.
I'm not sure why it would be so black and oily??? any opinions??

bpu699 10-21-2017 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakrat (Post 9785777)
So I found a local media blaster...
I was going to take as much of my engine parts to him that I can have blasted and cleaned.

What type of media should I have them use on what? I want my fan assembly, valve covers, engine tin, pulley cover, intake runners, and anything else I can give them to be blasted clean.

Any specific media I should request on any specific parts?? (FYI... I've already searched here and learned to NOT use sand)
Some of the options they provide:
Aluminum Oxide
cornstarch
walnut shells
glass bead
plastic bead

Honestly, I would leave it alone unless it's rusty. Clean it off with solvents, put it back. It's a low return area cost wise, no one sees it, and within 1000 miles you won't be able to tell you did it... I did it when I resealed my motor 5000 miles ago. Took off what I could at the time. Sand blasted, powder coated, etc. Several years later, looks the same...

Trakrat 10-21-2017 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 9785783)
When you get to the point where you are taking off the pulley and the intermediate shaft cover, if you could take a pic of the parting line where the left and right hand case meet I would appreciate it...

Anyone else notice that?

Not sure where you are talking about? Give me an idea and I'll take a pic as I get there.

Trakrat 10-21-2017 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 9785789)
Honestly, I would leave it alone unless it's rusty. Clean it off with solvents, put it back. It's a low return area cost wise, no one sees it, and within 1000 miles you won't be able to tell you did it... I did it when I resealed my motor 5000 miles ago. Took off what I could at the time. Sand blasted, powder coated, etc. Several years later, looks the same...

Just about everything has layer of surface rust on it... even the cooling fins on the heads are rusty.
I'd rather have them blasted than replaced. expensive parts for just some sheet metal.
I'm also going to replace the fan shroud with a raw fiberglass (I noticed my fan shroud is cracked on one side)

bpu699 10-21-2017 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakrat (Post 9785797)
Just about everything has layer of surface rust on it... even the cooling fins on the heads are rusty.
I'd rather have them blasted than replaced. expensive parts for just some sheet metal.
I'm also going to replace the fan shroud with a raw fiberglass (I noticed my fan shroud is cracked on one side)

You can sandblast any area that isn't inside the motor, that's cheapest. Brackets, etc.

And area that had any potential to be exposed to the inside like valve covers you can use walnuts. They only clean, don't take off rust.

Fan you may wish to leave and just clean, polish. Unless powdercoating it, it will rapidly oxidize. Powdercoating screws up clearance and grounding...

I have a sand blaster in my garage, with soda, glass, sand, black beauty, etc... for external surfaces you won't be painting, glass bead leaves a nice surface... for painted surfaces or coated, sand is fine, especially with rust.

Just don't get any of this stuff near the inside of your motor...

Bo

trond 10-23-2017 07:53 AM

I would advise to NOT use sandblasting on any engine. Only on parts that have been taken off. There is always a risk that media ends up inside the engine, maybe through damaged masking tape or blanking plugs. Take off any parts you absolutely can not live with as they are before blasting. I learned this the hard way myself

Trakrat 10-24-2017 05:25 AM

Does anyone know what tool to use to remove the oil pressure sensor by the timing chain cover?
The crescent wrench I have is too wide to fit... and I'm not sure what skinny size tool I need to fit on there and wrench it off.

Thanks!

bpu699 10-24-2017 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakrat (Post 9788755)
Does anyone know what tool to use to remove the oil pressure sensor by the timing chain cover?
The crescent wrench I have is too wide to fit... and I'm not sure what skinny size tool I need to fit on there and wrench it off.

Thanks!

Crescent wrenches come in different thicknesses... Super cheap ones are super thin.

Trakrat 10-24-2017 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 9788785)
Crescent wrenches come in different thicknesses... Super cheap ones are super thin.

Thanks... do you know the size needed? I'd rather just get a 22mm wrench (or whatever size it is)

bpu699 10-24-2017 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakrat (Post 9788802)
Thanks... do you know the size needed? I'd rather just get a 22mm wrench (or whatever size it is)

Don't know off hand. You may have to grab a pair of calipers and measure, they will be handy.

Trakrat 10-24-2017 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 9785783)
When you get to the point where you are taking off the pulley and the intermediate shaft cover, if you could take a pic of the parting line where the left and right hand case meet I would appreciate it...

When I was test fitting my case, I noted that the flywheel side machined face lined up perfectly, and that side is pinned. All the machining for the flywheel seal was perfectly lined up.

On the pulley side, one side of the case stuck forward enough that it was noticeable. .005 maybe? More? I.e., the face where the pulley seal insert was perfectly round, but both sides weren't flush. One side is proud. Thought that was odd, but didn't see any way to fix it.

If one were to slide the left hand case forward .005, then the flywheel side would be out .005. Moot point anyway, as the flywheel side is pinned and can't be slid forward. You definitely want the flywheel side perfect as it has a supply bearing.

Just seems odd Porsche would machine this face not perfectly flat. It's out enough that it's noticeable, but clearly didn't seem to effect anything for 60k miles.... almost as if they machined the pulley side, case moved .005, and then they machined the flywheel side and pinned it...

Anyone else notice that?

Just an fyi... I took off the shaft cover below the pulley... I think I see what you mean, it's not perfectly smooth between the creases of the two halves?
I'd take a pic, but it's really really REALLY dirty and grimy below the pulley and would have to clean it first.

bpu699 10-24-2017 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakrat (Post 9788925)
Just an fyi... I took off the shaft cover below the pulley... I think I see what you mean, it's not perfectly smooth between the creases of the two halves?
I'd take a pic, but it's really really REALLY dirty and grimy below the pulley and would have to clean it first.

Exactly!!! I thought it was just my case. The machining isn't "flush" between the two sides.

When you eventually take out the seals, you may also find that its not flushly machined inside that area either.

Its not out by much on this side, but it IS flush wheras the flywheel side is...

KTL 10-24-2017 09:01 AM

You're going to find that the exhaust valves are the ugly ones. I think the fuel injectors and oil keep the intake valves clean. Whereas on the exhaust side the burned air-fuel-oil mix gums up the valves really well. Especially if you have leaky valve guides and the engine consumes a large amount of oil.

You have oil in the intake manifold because the oil tank is vented to the intake boot- notice the rubber hose connected to it. So there's always air with oil vapor in it being consumed by the engine right at the throttle body. Then consider that people occasionally overfill the tank and the tank can burp/puke oil into the throttle body. If overfilled enough, it can be a huge amount of oil drunk by the engine and it creates a James Bond 007 smoke screen. I'm ashamed to admit i've been there, done that.

I STRONGLY suggest you remove the oil pressure sender on the workbench in a vise. So what that means is you only need to remove the "banjo" tube that passes through and connects the steel adapter block to the engine case. But why do you need to remove the sender from the steel block?

Leaving it on the steel block means you don't need as much force to counterhold that steel block. That's because the banjo tube is not all that tight on account of it being a low torque fastening. It's low torque because the sealing is done by the aluminum crush rings, which don't require a large amount of torque to seal, and the hollow tube is actually not all that strong. As a side note, on a number of occasions there have been some people on the forum who used a suitable wrench that fits the under the sender and tried to loosen it in place, unfortunately breaking the engine case. So just don't do that and put the thing in the vise like I suggest.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/711514-how-easy-replace-oil-pressure-sender-my-3-2-a.html

Trakrat 10-24-2017 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTL (Post 9789040)
You're going to find that the exhaust valves are the ugly ones. I think the fuel injectors and oil keep the intake valves clean. Whereas on the exhaust side the burned air-fuel-oil mix gums up the valves really well. Especially if you have leaky valve guides and the engine consumes a large amount of oil.

You have oil in the intake manifold because the oil tank is vented to the intake boot- notice the rubber hose connected to it. So there's always air with oil vapor in it being consumed by the engine right at the throttle body. Then consider that people occasionally overfill the tank and the tank can burp/puke oil into the throttle body. If overfilled enough, it can be a huge amount of oil drunk by the engine and it creates a James Bond 007 smoke screen. I'm ashamed to admit i've been there, done that.

I STRONGLY suggest you remove the oil pressure sender on the workbench in a vise. So what that means is you only need to remove the "banjo" tube that passes through and connects the steel adapter block to the engine case. But why do you need to remove the sender from the steel block?

Leaving it on the steel block means you don't need as much force to counterhold that steel block. That's because the banjo tube is not all that tight on account of it being a low torque fastening. It's low torque because the sealing is done by the aluminum crush rings, which don't require a large amount of torque to seal, and the hollow tube is actually not all that strong. As a side note, on a number of occasions there have been some people on the forum who used a suitable wrench that fits the under the sender and tried to loosen it in place, unfortunately breaking the engine case. So just don't do that and put the thing in the vise like I suggest.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/711514-how-easy-replace-oil-pressure-sender-my-3-2-a.html

OK... so following those links, I didn't realize the oil sensor wasn't attached to the case. I figured it was screwed INTO the block.

Just to verify then... it looks like if I loosen the metal line nut, the inside will pull out sideways of the mount and then I can just lift it off???? :confused:

KTL 10-24-2017 09:56 AM

The oil pressure sender cannister thing is indeed screwed into the steel block. But if you try to remove it from the block without properly supporting the block, you can crack/break the case. So that's why I say you're better off taking the whole block & cannister assembly and putting it in your vise.

Yes if you loosen the metal line nut, the oil line will be released from the hollow bolt. Then you can remove the hollow bolt and you're left with the block free of the engine case but the sender still attached. Buy a cheap open-end China wrench at your local Menard's and grind it thinner with a bench grinder or an angle grinder. But I still question why you need to remove the sender? Do you want to re-plate the block and sender?

Trakrat 10-24-2017 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTL (Post 9789114)
But I still question why you need to remove the sender? Do you want to re-plate the block and sender?

I just need to take it off the engine is all. I'll just leave the 2 pieces that I circled attached to each other.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508869783.jpg


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