No ABS means no speedo ???

[jpramondon]

Hi board,

As you may have read already in a recent thread of mines, I discovered my speedo wasn't working any more (well only the tachometer actually). Since I'm rebuilding this bike, I started a lot of things at the same time, making it more difficult to find out why the speedo always stays at the 0 position.
Among other ideas this afternoon, I decided I would plug the ABS unit back on the bike. Since it's a track bike projects I had removed it a couple of weeks ago. So I plugged the unit back on the bike just to discover that the speedo would work again.

Long story short : is there a way to make the speedo work with the ABS unit off the bike ?

Thanks for your help,

Jerome

[jpramondon]

No one on this one ? I can't believe no one's ever performed an ABSectomy on a 2001 R11S.

Anyway, here's what I've found on the wiring diagrams :



This is the ABS part of a 2001 wiring diagram. It clearly shows that the speedometer is part of the ABS wiring harness. From what I understand, since there's only one sensor for ABS and speed on 2001 bikes, the signal is sent from the sensor to the ABS unit and then sent back to the dashboard. So if the ABS unit plug is unplugged, then there's no way the speed signal is making it to the dashboard.
As it seems to be the same for brake lights (as brake switches wires are also part of the ABS harness).

Here's what happens for the speed sensor and the dashboard on a non-ABS version. Look at the wiring colors and numbers on both diagrams and tell me what you think.



Thanks for your help,

Jerome

[KMoore]

I know there have been a couple of members that removed the abs on their R1100S (SandCityFlyer is one) but not sure if they were all pre boosted brakes or not. Is yours the boosted brake model?

[jpramondon]

Thanks for your reply.
Indeed it is a pre boosted brake version.
There must be someone out there who knows how to solve this. Looking at the wiring diagrams, I'm thinking of bridging 34, 36, 37 and 38 wires on the huge ABS plug. Well if I can find them.

[KMoore]

Not what you are looking for, but maybe of some interest.

Some info here...
ABS Fault lights is there a non dealer involved reset?

Second page of this link has more info...
Getting rid of the ABS

[AntonLargiader]

Indeed it is a pre boosted brake version.

That diagram is for Integral ABS.

[tm1100s]

The ABS and non-ABS speed sensors are different and not compatible, mostly.

As far as the connections you suggest, I would make sure that the signal on wires 34/36 going into the ABS unit is the same as what's coming out on wires 37/38.

[AntonLargiader]

If you indeed have an Integral ABS bike, the sensor and signal processing arrangement is (AFAIK) totally different. Different sensor types, different signals, everything.

[twodear]

I found this link, sounds similar.
HELP - - No Speedometer or Odometer

I'm not familiar with the ABS set up on the R1100S, and for the life of me I can't remember if the non-ABS speed sensor is located on the final drive casting (I've changed the final drive on my track bike to that from an R1150R for different gearing and sold the original). I looked on the RealOEM website and it seems to show the sensor located on the R1100S final drive casting.

Anyway, if the casting for your final drive is drilled to accept a non-ABS speed sensor, the quickest method would be to find a used one and wire it according to your second diagram.

If you're interested, I can post photos showing where I've done a complete dash-ectomy (only the tach mounted in a plastic cup) and a very reduced wiring loom since all the turn signal and brake modules have been removed from the 'bars. I have only charging, timing, injection and ignition wiring. Starting is via a pushbutton mounted above the rear tyre.

[jpramondon]

Originally Posted by twodear

I found this link, sounds similar.
HELP - - No Speedometer or Odometer

I'm not familiar with the ABS set up on the R1100S, and for the life of me I can't remember if the non-ABS speed sensor is located on the final drive casting (I've changed the final drive on my track bike to that from an R1150R for different gearing and sold the original). I looked on the RealOEM website and it seems to show the sensor located on the R1100S final drive casting.

Anyway, if the casting for your final drive is drilled to accept a non-ABS speed sensor, the quickest method would be to find a used one and wire it according to your second diagram.

If you're interested, I can post photos showing where I've done a complete dash-ectomy (only the tach mounted in a plastic cup) and a very reduced wiring loom since all the turn signal and brake modules have been removed from the 'bars. I have only charging, timing, injection and ignition wiring. Starting is via a pushbutton mounted above the rear tyre.

You seem to have a heavily modified S. Any link where I could see some pics of it ? (I need some ideas on where to go next for the track project).

Thanks for your input,

Jerome

[jpramondon]

Originally Posted by AntonLargiader

If you indeed have an Integral ABS bike, the sensor and signal processing arrangement is (AFAIK) totally different. Different sensor types, different signals, everything.

Absolutely right. I'm in touch with guys in Germany who told me that.
Yesterday, I tried to bride the wires using the above diagram anyway, but it didn't work.
It seems like we're on a solution to this : keep the electronic part of the ABS unit by unsealing it and throw the rest away.
I'll post pics if it works.

Jerome

[jpramondon]

I've made a quick drawing of the suggested solution



Jerome

[twodear]

Jerome, you're the first victim to express that sort of interest in The Lizard, so I hope you don't regret it. I haven't posted many photos and almost none with detail. I will attempt to document what I've done when I get this other (furniture fabriction) project out of my tiny shed. In short, I've held back because the primitive nature of some of the modifications is appalling in comparison to the high quality of others in this forum. But it goes okay...

I have to ask though, as you seem to be building up a dedicated track bike, do you really need a speedo? For track days here the scrutineers have us tape it over as it is merely a distraction, just like mirrors.

[RBMann]

If you are just building a track bike but want a speedometer, then get a cheap bicycle computer and run it from the front wheel. They are accurate too.

[jpramondon]

Originally Posted by twodear

Jerome, you're the first victim to express that sort of interest in The Lizard, so I hope you don't regret it. I haven't posted many photos and almost none with detail. I will attempt to document what I've done when I get this other (furniture fabriction) project out of my tiny shed. In short, I've held back because the primitive nature of some of the modifications is appalling in comparison to the high quality of others in this forum. But it goes okay...

Don't be so shy. I'm curious to see your bike and am pretty sure every will salute your job on it. As I said I'm always curious to see what people did to their bike to improve performance (other than just put an exhaust and a chip, even if that's a good start).

Originally Posted by twodear

I have to ask though, as you seem to be building up a dedicated track bike, do you really need a speedo? For track days here the scrutineers have us tape it over as it is merely a distraction, just like mirrors.

You know, I've been riding/racing on track for almost 10 years now and the speedo is not a disturbing point any more. I even got plenty of time to look at it when knee down.
That's true, I'm building a race bike, but as I said on the german forum, I'm kind of lying to myself because the more this project moves on, the more I want to use this toy on the road.

Cheers,

Jerome

[jpramondon]

Originally Posted by RBMann

If you are just building a track bike but want a speedometer, then get a cheap bicycle computer and run it from the front wheel. They are accurate too.

There's still that part of me saying I want to ride it on the road ... AND I have to register the bike for this and that mean having to pass a little test to prove the bike is road legal (or close to)

[r1100sp]

Although I'm not opposed to ABS brakes, I never cared for the linked and servo assist features on my 2002. Here's a few notes describing some of the basics of the conversion to standard, conventional brakes and eliminating the ABS, servo and linked systems:

1. ABS removal seems far simpler on an early bike than a later one. Signet posted a thread called "ABSectomy" on his '99, if I'm not mistaken. 2002 thru 2004 bikes require more work as you must also remove the linked and servo assist systems along with the ABS.

2. All the stock hard brake lines and junction blocks must be removed including all those running to the ABS modulator beneath the gas tank.

3. The front ABS sensor ring and sensor are removed.

4. New SS braided brake lines are installed in the front.

5. A generic 8" hard brake line (available at all auto parts stores) must be bent to shape to connect the rear master cylinder to the rear junction block. (the only one that is retained in this conversion) A simpler alternative is to purchase the rear brake line designed for a non-ABS bike. It bolts right in.

6. A new rear SS braided line replaces the OEM rubber line.

7. Since nearly all of the bikes electrical circuits run through the ABS modulator, this large and heavy component cannot be removed. (unlike signet's '99 bike) The rear ABS sensor ring and sensor must be retained as they also supply a signal through the modulator to the speedometer.

8. The small OEM micro-switches used at the front brake lever and rear pedal must be replaced. Their circuits are closed or "connected" when in the relaxed, non actuated position. Both switches must be replaced with conventional ones that are open or "disconnected" in the relaxed, non actuated position. You'll need to make small brackets so the new switches attach to these brackets and the brackets attach to the bike.

9. New wiring must be fabricated for each switch and incorporated into the bike. You will need to tap into a new power source for the switches and keep them completely isolated from the rest of the bike. Even with this installation, the ABS Warning Light (the red light with the ! exclamation point) will remain on. The only convenient solution I found is to remove the bulb. The blue ABS relay must also be removed. If you don't, I believe the computer thinks there has been an ABS failure and will constantly send warnings. The bike works fine without the relay and bulb.

I've put about a thousand miles on my S after the conversion with no issue. I greatly prefer the feel of the brakes and do not regret the modification.

Hopefully this gives you a flavor of what's involved. It's a straightforward conversion but takes a bit of care, fabrication, wiring skills and time. I was hoping to post a thread with far more detail and some photos that I took along the way, but unfortunately have not had time to do so yet.

Pete.

[ExarKunONe]

You could try something like this, they are awesome Vapor Digital Gauge at Trail Tech Home

It looks like you could just take out the warning relay and be just fine.

[daweise1]

Lose everything including the instruments and the dash by just buying an Garmin or Tom-Tom unit.....

Mine tells me mileage, speed, and directions and would take up much less space than the instrument panel there now.... You could wire up indicators with colored LEDs for cheap, and you could remove it completely on track day so it does not get broken/ in the way....

I don't know if this is what you are looking for exactly, but it is an out of box solution....

[jpramondon]

Just for the memories, I finally sorted this all out.
You can read on what I came to here on my blog.

Thanks again for all your support, help and suggestions.

Cheers,

Jerome