New R1200S; What would you like added or changed from the current S?

[MarkC]

If/When BMW does make a new R1200S (based on the same engine mechanics/drive train/electronics of the new R1200GS) what would you like see added or changed from the current S?

Less weight and more power is the simple answer, but more specifically I came up with a list, which I'm sure I forgot something:

For the Regular R1200S:
Technological advancements:
New gauges, with digital speed readout, fuel level, oil temp readout and gear position indicator.
On board diagnostics; Fault code readout, and maintenance interval recommendations. As a 'wish-list' add on, it would be neat to have an on-board throttle body synch indicator via digital bar graph.
New anti-theft electronic key (such as SAAB and Mercedes) that utilizes a memory chip to store the odometer readings, and any fault codes. Just like with BMW automotive keys, the dealer will insert the motorcycle key into a receptacle, down loading all relevant information to the service manager’s computer.
Visual (subjective):
New body work, similar amount of coverage of the current S, but with more angular styling and a smaller headlight, which would be very easy and quick to remove for track days etc.
Performance:
Slightly shorter wheelbase for sharper handling.
Service ease:
Like on the new GS, easily accessible fuel pump/filer on the fuel tank, easy and quick access to the battery.
Convenience:
Some type of rear hugger for keeping the exhaust and underside clean.
*****
An S-P performance version, which would be the basis for the BoxerCup race bikes. The S-P version would add:
Chassis:
Premium shocks with ride height adjustability along with adjustable spring preload, compression and rebound damping adjustments. Steering damper (if deemed necessary) to be smaller, lighter and adjustable…How about an electronic adjustable version as on Honda‘s new CBR1000RR?).
Adjustable length Paralever Torque arm to match the adjustable rear shock ride height.
Light weight wheels (as on the Aprilia RSV-R/Factor etc.)

Engine:
No mechanical changes from the R1200S.
Exhaust cans with removable baffles for track use (aka Laser).
Included with the purchase is a CAT eliminator, with strict instruction that it be used only with the 'Cup key' (read below) which would only be used during 'non-highway' use.
Boxer Cup ignition key in addition to the standard versions electronic key version: The 'Cup key' is to be used only for off-highway use as it switches the ECU to a performance 'map' (not EPA compliant), with a slightly raised RPM ceiling. The BoxerCup race bikes will use this exact same map and key, hence the name 'Cup key' (any other name would be OK, I just made up one). Removing the street baffle in the S-P's exhaust cans, replacing the CAT with the included CAT eliminator, and using premium octane fuel is recommended for best engine power output performance. To ensure that the 'Cup' key is used only for 'off-highway' use, the speedometer and all lights are disabled (but the Odometer will still function). A lap timer will be displayed where the digital speedometer would be, and is triggered by the head light 'flash-to-pass' (or similar). The high beam light indicator will become a programmable RPM level shift light. The service interval will recognize, and adjust by advising shorter service intervals. The warranty will not be affected by use of the 'Cup' Key as long as the computer adjusted service intervals are followed. Just as it is now, if the S is used in competition (official races) the warranty becomes void….Track days are not considered competition. Sounds space age? It’s not, for those of you who are not familiar with the Japanese Market Honda NSR250/R/SP street legal bikes (no longer made), a similar 'electronic key card' has been used in these for years, with an HRC performance, off-highway key card available, doing most of what I wrote above. So the technology is not new, nor should be cost prohibited. However, the Japanese market 250 two-strokes (no longer made due to emissions I believe) had their performance severely limited to meet the max-hp requirement for that engine cc size class. Also, an owner needed to show an MFJ race license to buy the HRC key, which would only work in the one bike, as it matched the ECU so it was a special order. I doubt such a significant power gain could be had with the above BMW system, but I think BMW should still offer it on the S-P.

Track use ready prep:
Light weight aluminum rear sub frame; meaning the S-P will only be a single seat (with integrated cover where the passenger seat would be, for use as a number plate holder), so no passenger pegs, nor side case mounts etc. Let’s not forget to make a spot to attach the universal plastic bracket where a lap timer attaches too. With the Aluminum rear sub frame, a special license plate/fender assembly that incorporates the rear turn signals and brake light can be simply unbolted and unplugged to minimize prep time for track days. Unplug the wire, undo three bolts and the rear is done. Also allow the S-P to accept the standard S’s steel rear sub frame and seat, so an owner can switch out the aluminum subframe and solo seat, to make the bike more versatile.
Oil drain/fill bolts for the engine/transmission, rear diff will be predrilled for safety wire, along with the brake caliper retaining bolts and oil-fill cap.

Cost savings:
Body panels on the S-P will be unpainted, plain white. This prioritizes manufacturing cost toward premium suspension and wheels. Additionally, this would allow cosmetic conscious owners to personalize the color of their S-P without concern of ruining a premium factory paint job.
ABS nor heated grips will be available as an option and so a smaller, and lighter weight battery will be used.

Anyone have other ideas? What would you like to see added or changed from the current R1100S to a new R1200S?
MarkC

[718Rider]

Standard OHLINs Front/Rear + Possibly Steering Damper on a sport model.

[Eron Flory]

less weight!
less weight!
less weight!
lighter wheels!
and good shocks would be nice too.

[Chris Geuting]

Since MOTORRAD wrote that the new S will have at least 120hp and probably weight savings equally to the new GS there is not much more to wish for,especially after Mark's impressive list..;-)
All I ever wanted was besides the added power/less weight;
-less vibration;which the new one also gets thanks to the counterbalancer
-bigger tank;one gal more please
-a rear hugger stock
-a little more legroom for the ones wih 36+
inseam
-a centerstand that does not have to come off with a shorter paraleverarm;we get that too since the new paraarm is on top of the driveshaft
-passengerfootpegbrackets that don't interfare with the rider's heels
-easier access to battery,air and fuelfilter
That taken care of the new 1200S could be the perfect bike for spirited roadriding, sporty touring and the occasional trackday. Can't wait to see it...
Chris

[Chris Geuting]

Sorry forgot one point...
-ABS that can be switched off a la GS for beter write ups in the mags since journos don't like or don,t know how to ride with, or think they can stop quicker without ABS; Tha would shut them up for once and all..;-)
Chris

[Dingo Joe]

more fuel, hid lights, loud horn, lose the goofy horn button & turn signal switch configuration, lose the sight glass, add dipstick, keep analog speedo & tach, better shocks, much brighter tail light/turn signals, add pre wiring for electrical goodies w/relays & fuses. frt turn signals intagrated w/mirrors, signals double as running lights, fly-by-wire throttle, radial mounted calipers, decent hemet lock, mount for rear rack, 2 piece seat w/pillon section removeable w/a rack underneath,

[roger albert]

Everythign Eron said. I'd leave most the rest of that crap for the RS.
And who still thinks, after the RCV211, that a shorter wheelbase is the ticket to quicker turning???!!!???

And no stinking extra electronic memory stuff in the key. I want it light and reliable, not pimped and optioned out. Current bodywork is fine. I hope they don't louse it up with angularity. Might as well have a Future then. Yuck. And in no case a fly-by-wire throttle. You think surging is bad now. Try that already proven not ready for primetime tech and you're asking for much more trouble yet. The motor could be pretty much as in the GS, but with a bit more rev range to deliver at least 10 more hp. The luggage racks should allow the bags to tuck in tighter too. Always found it absurd that the S spaces the luggage out wider than the RT, especially given the S is the one with the narrower rear end. Wahnsinn.

So, 12gs motor with more top end. Lighter chassis, motor, and WHEELS. Smaller ass. Bigger jugs. That's the ticket.

[1967 R50/2]

Mark-

Great list. I see you've put a lot of thought into it.

My thoughts:

First and foremost, As I've posted elsewhere: I DO NOT THINK THE NEXT S WILL BE A BOXER. The engine configuration is at a severe aerodynamic disadvantage against other configurations, so it will never be first choice for a sporting mount.

The new "K"...and hell, even a F engine would be better bets. Chrysalis won the Isle of Man singles class repeatedly with an F engined sport bike. I hope BMW noticed. The F engine should be due for a makeover soon, but the press always seems to forget how well the model sells (mostly in Europe). It's quite an important engine platform.

No, the boxer is better suited for smooth touring and cruiser applications where lean angle is not important. Ironically in the V-twin crazy market, it is never likely to be accepted as a real cruising engine either. Which leaves it as a touring power plant. And make no mistake...the new GS will be used primarily as a tourer. Call it an adventure tourer, an enduro tourer...whatever. It's still a tourer.

But you created the list on the assumption that there will be an R12S. It's a pretty thorough list, I must say. There are a couple of things I do not think are likely and a couple more which I think would be good.

Things I do NOT think are likely:

Digital Readout: As far as I know, ALL BMW bikes and ALL BMW cars have had analog gauges. It's a quality feature and I like it. Digital readout loses character and is another step towards being part of the pack.

Track ready: Can't really see it. even if there is another S it will likely be a sport tourer like our current S and not a track bike.

Things I WOULD like to see:

Electronically adjusting shocks: Ohlins is working on a setup that automatically adjusts preload, etc. based on the bikes load. Also, several auto makes, but most notably GM are using magnetically adjusting cartridges which automatically adjust the viscocity of shock fluid depending on the impact. A neat idea which supposedly works well. It's used on the Corvette and the new stealth Caddies.

Complete Ti exhaust system: More and more common on Japanese sport bikes. Should be doable. They look hideous though, and that might be a reason not go that route. Afterall, the header pipes on a boxer are always hanging out there for everyone to see.

Expandable Bags: Like on the F and on the new GS. They could be both City and touring bags in one. Needs to be in some sporty shape of course, but I like the idea.

That's it. Good list. You've probably started another marathon post.

[Highlander179]

Dont' forget the charcoal canister. It gotta have one. So the owner can have the satisfaction of throwin' that piece of ***** away.

[Chris Geuting]

Yes there will be another S with at least 120hp,lighter and of course boxer motor!
As for the rest and the things that will change,we'll know more,soon...
I like the idea with he rearrack and the rearseat that can be a also a rack or maybe stylish storage compartment.And if they call that bike S or RS,I really don't care,as long as it will come...
But who knows maybe this bike will be the new RS and the S will be more track focused and less practical for road use...
In a year or maybe two the most we'll have the answer,except the supercharger was a wet dream,but 120hp and 85lbft torque are more than enough to do the speedlimits anyways and on the track only the very few are able to handle more...
Chris
PS:The 170 hp K40 will be much slower than the 120hp 1200S except for sunday mornings on the Autobahn...

[1967 R50/2]

An R based S model is far from assured. There were 16 years between the R100S and the R1100S.

Plus, the R1100S hasn't exactly been a top seller, or a favorite with the press, or a favorite with it's owner's (judging from the comments on this board)...this all lends credence to it's termination from the line-up. That termination may be sooner rather than later considering how the new GS outpowers and outperforms it all around.

With a new K coming which the press (including Motorrad) all seem to think will be a sport model, there is no need for a boxer S. If the K is an S a boxer S is only a duplication. BMW only had two S models in the line up at the same time ONCE. And only for 1.5 years from 1961 to 1962: the R69S and the R50S.

There is no evidence that the new boxer will be faster than the new K.... Especially because nobody knows the specs of the latter. It's all speculation.

[Rapid Dog]

Well you guy's have just about covered it!
Now compile this data and get it off to BMWNA pronto!

[Rattus]

Just inject the same DNA that transformed the R1150GS into the R1200GS into a R1100S and create a R1200S! More power, less weight. I think it will happen and its going to be a sweet real world bike.

I'd like to see more potent headlights and premium shocks as standard.

[Rapid Dog]

I'm getting excited.
For Sale: 2001 R1100S...

[markjenn]

Mark, 90% of these gadgets would have applicability to perhaps 10% of the customers. A lap-timer attachment bracket? I'd venture that while 10-20% of Japanese sportbikes do some track time, less than 1-2% of R1100S bikes see any track time.

BMW should (and will) concentrate on the key things that appeal to most customers and let the fringes (like folks who race the S) do the changes to make the bike right for them. My suggestions:

1. 485-lb wet weight (getting it much lighter results in super costly materials and fragile components; this is plenty light enough for sport-touring bike).

2. Significantly reduced vibration, particularly above 6K.

2. 6 gallon fuel capacity.

3. An extra 10-15 RWHP, but with the same beefy torque curve.

4. A beefed up drive system with a dramatic reduction in the incidence of wear issues.

5. Improved battery and air filter access.

6. A simpler system of bodywork attachment with fewer, difficult-to-reach fasteners.

7. A better system for actuating the TBs, not subject to the wear and mis-calibration of the current crossover cable system. Fly-by-wire servos maybe?

8. Bi-xenon headlight option. Larger, brighter, LED taillight.

9. Better mirrors, perhaps integrated into bodywork to give a rear view below the shoulders, ala ST1100.

A fuel gauge would be Okay, but not necessary. Actually, if they deliver the first four, I'll probably get one - the others are nice-to-haves, but the critical thing on the S is to get the weight down, fuel capacity up, vibration down, and cut down on the maintenance glitches.

- Mark

[Chris Geuting]

1967 R50/2 did not read MOTORRAD 3/2004...
The new S will have at least 120hp,same weight savings as on the GS and it will come soon...
And yes the new S will be faster than the new K1300RS because for backroads it does not matter if you have 120 or 170 hp since you will probably ony use 80 of thoose ponies anyways.What will matter though is the weight difference of approximately 90 lbs...
The new K will not be a S-successor but a lighter Honda XX-1100 with more power,ABS, shaftdrive,expandable bags and innovative frontend...
Chris

[roger albert]

> If the K is an S a boxer S is only a duplication.

I don't buy that at all. Not for a second. Sure, they could skip it, but it's hardly a duplication. Look, a lot of guys are NOT going to buy a 4. It's not what they want. Plus, I"ve never seen any evidence that BMW can do a better 4 than honda. I've never considered one, even for a second. Just one more me-too bike. All the beemer weight, non of the beemer character or agility. Great for the Autobahn maybe, but utterly uninteresting. BMW tried to do away with the boxer (and Porsche the 911) but it obviously didn't work. I'm with MarkJenn and Herr Geuting on this one.

[fiery]

There must be a new "S".

It must be the new flat twin.

BMW Motorrad learnt the lesson last time they tried to ditch the twin.

[Dr. Curve]

Way agreed Fiery, a new flat twin S is already in the works, and don't be too sure it will have it over the new K13S in the mountains..........or any other place. With the right person driving it a current K12 can be deceptively fast...........so with 60 or so pounds less weight the new K should be fairly quick.

Lets look and some spectulative numbers closer to reality.

New R12S...........115 at the crank, 470 pounds wet, equals 4.08 pounds per HP.
New K13S............150 at the crank, 540 pounds wet, equals 3.6 pounds per HP.

Both should be fun and I can't wait!

[twobmws2003]

Less weight and less electronics, I hate looking for BMW dealers in other states when I am out on a trip and something goes wrong. Carry more fuel a gallon and a half or so more, ABS on off switch, more power, ok. Brighter or better warning lights that can be seen when the sun is behind me. Heard nothing but bad things about BMW cars electronics digital screen windows type thingamagig that not even techs know how to debug.

How about a "race bolt kit" for those who race? How about a Ti race bolt kit for the entire bike? Saves weight too!

Hey do you guys think BMW reads this board or are we just farting in the wind?