removing O2 sensor and CCP

[JonyRR]

OK, folks, anyone here do this on a US spec S?
with an aftermarket pipe, have you pulled the O2 sensor and the CCP and tried this? What were the results? I believe that removing these 2 items will make the mo(t)ronic go 'open loop' thru the rpm/tps range. Any results remembered, both positive and negative, would be appreciated.

[jduke]

You're right, pulling the CCP causes the computer to go into a mode that is full rich. I'm not sure about pulling the O2 sensor. I've always heard that with almost any performance change, the bikes run better with the O2 than without.
I've seen some info, I believe on the IBMWR site, that goes into detail about using a wire jumper and getting different settings by just jumpering different positions.

[mbohn]

I pulled the ccp on my roadster to try and eliminate surging. Since this forces the bike to run open loop, the O2 sensor is not used so whether it is in or not doesn't matter. The results were amazing! Bike was extremely smooth, no surging and excellent throttle response throughout the range. Downside is my mileage dropped from 52 to 44. I'm now experimenting with different ccp's and the Techlusion.

[emccarty]

JonyRR, I have tried running without the O2 sensor. It puts the computer in a default mode which richens the fuel streight across the range. I don't recall any real difference in performance (very slight under wide open throttle). The O2 sensor is your friend on the S and should always be used. The computer only uses the feed back from the O2 sensor (to trim the fuel) when you maintain a constant throttle setting. When you are accelerating the the computer does not use the O2 info at all. When you get an aftermarket air intake and open exhaust you can use the K1200RS fuel pressue regulator ($60.00) or buy a good chip like BB Power (for $400.00) to richen the fuel. The chip is the best way to go but the fuel pressure regulator works pretty well for the cost. The chip will richen the mixture where it needs it only, the fuel pressure regulator will richen the mixture everywhere. When running the fuel pressure regulator the bike will run good (never fowl the plugs) with the negative of who ever rides behind you will smell the excess fuel. I am just trying to give you 2 alternatives. Some people on this board will go into a knee jerking spasm everytime the K1200RS fuel pressure regulator is mentioned. I first mentioned this to the board in 2000 since then some have tried it and like it. I run both on my bike. Eddy

[JonyRR]

Thanks Eddie, that's what I thought. The reason I wanna pull the O2 sensor is that I want to 'tip the can' a bit (I know you know what that means)...my down-the-street neighbor has connections with the Austin AA/TF funny car gang and it's 'nitro time'...my tentative mixture will be 110 octane VP unleaded and 5% nitromethane/2% propelyene oxide. Just skewing the odds in my favor a bit when I go to the grudge drags next weekend with a buddy who owns my old CBX...I can't afford lose to a 25-year-old-piece-of-japkrap now, can I?

[emccarty]

Good Luck! I would suggest you practice your hole shot. Do not feather the clutch. The clutch on these bikes gets hot and slips after one or two hard runs. Make sure it has had suffient time to cool down goooood before the race. My bike turns a better time when I come out under 3000 rpm's. If you get a chance to run thru the clocks before the day of the race try to find the combination that works best for you. Let me know how it turns out and the times. Eddy

[JonyRR]

yueah, eddie, I know what you mean on the clutch end of things. I tried a TZ250-type launch (wind 'er up, slip the clutch, come out at 8 grand) just once, and the smell of roasting clutch made me think I killed it right there and then. It slipped and then grabbed...obviously, they didn't design it for abuse. My plan is similar to yours, and Im gonna need all the help I can get. 25 years old or not, Mr. CBX has a fresh yoshima 1188 kit, megacycle cams, and he just found a set of the almost-unobtanium 6-pack-rack of 29MM smoothbores....it's one bad X. I'm hoping fuel will close the gap a bit, but there's no way Mr. S is any kind of a drag racer (not that it matters...hehehehe). Should be interesting..results to follow.

[brad black]

pulling the ccp just changes which map of the 8 available the ecu works from. we used the "ccp out" map (map 0) for the fim chip testing. all maps are closed loop, as they are for any motronic 2.4 bike. all maps in the s are the same to any readers, but there must be a software realted difference because it seems to change how the bike runs. altho results often vary.

pulling ccp on o2 equipped r1100r/gs/rs/rt bikes (usa models) with 2.2 motronic made them run open loop. the chips in those ecu have 4 open loop maps and 4 closed loop maps.

on the r1150 bikes the std ecu has 3 maps for r/gs, 2 for rs/rt and a couple of left overs, including an s map i think, that are never used. going from the gold ccp (usa map) to none on an r1150r gives you the euro r1150r map.

i don't believe the ecu goes into limp or default mode when you pull the o2 sensor. i think the base mapping is a little rich to allow the o2 input to chase mixture to the required for closed loop. when you pull the o2 sensor it will certainly register a fault, but that's as far as i think it goes.

if you don't clear the adaption tables at the same time you'll run on the adapted tables as they stood i believe with no more o2 input. clearing the adaptions will get you back onto the base map

that's how i see it from what i've seen in testing. could be crap.

[JonyRR]

A great intellectujal exercise would be to substitute the motronic 2.2 ECU with a completely adjustable one like a halltech; there's no majikk here, as the aftermarket ECU's still read finite inputs like tps, rpm, oil temp, air temp (in the cse of a hot wire system) etc. An extra addeed benefit; I think a Halltech ECU is less expensive than an OEM bosch...

[repoe3]

has anyone else with a twinspark removed the CCP only to find the bike wont start? unless i had my kickstand down or something...i got nothing when the CCO was out. this was with the laser chip installed. on my single spark, removal did nothing, except shed some weight

repoe3

[Hannibal Twin]

I've been reading over this thread and have a couple of questions that maybe someone here would be good enough to school me on.

I ride a 2004 Twinspark R1100S Prep. I have installed a lazer Boxer Cup I exhaust system (removes catalytic converter) and the accompanying lazer chip. That is the only performance oriented modification thus far.

With the bike in it's current configuration, I am also experiencing a "popping" or backfiring phenomenon during shifting. That part seems along the exact lines that others here have posted. The bike also has a rich gassy smell to the exhaust which would lead me to believe the engine is actually running too rich. Would that be correct?

Also, I'm curious what causes the backfiring. Is this a characteristic of an engine running too lean or too rich, and what causes it?

My biggest wonder is that I have installed around $900 worth of exhaust / chip from Lazer - Jama and my bike is not running what I would call properly. Do you guys agree with that assessment? It seems that many people feel that the bike backfiring frequently during shifting is just something you'll have to deal with if you modify the ECU/exhaust. I would hope that there is something we could do about it.

Any help or answers would be greatly appreciated.

[repoe3]

Originally posted by Hannibal Twin
I've been reading over this thread and have a couple of questions that maybe someone here would be good enough to school me on.

I ride a 2004 Twinspark R1100S Prep. I have installed a lazer Boxer Cup I exhaust system (removes catalytic converter) and the accompanying lazer chip. That is the only performance oriented modification thus far.

With the bike in it's current configuration, I am also experiencing a "popping" or backfiring phenomenon during shifting. That part seems along the exact lines that others here have posted. The bike also has a rich gassy smell to the exhaust which would lead me to believe the engine is actually running too rich. Would that be correct?

Also, I'm curious what causes the backfiring. Is this a characteristic of an engine running too lean or too rich, and what causes it?

My biggest wonder is that I have installed around $900 worth of exhaust / chip from Lazer - Jama and my bike is not running what I would call properly. Do you guys agree with that assessment? It seems that many people feel that the bike backfiring frequently during shifting is just something you'll have to deal with if you modify the ECU/exhaust. I would hope that there is something we could do about it.

Any help or answers would be greatly appreciated.

throw a k&n filter in the airbox and you will be good to go.

everything you are experiencing is normal or at least consistent with how my 04 replica with laser exhaust and chip operates. what is your normal shift points in the rev range when you are just riding the streets (not backroads with you are wicking it up, mind you)? while i try to go easy while in the city, i still keep the RPMs above 3k or the bike gets really poppy. for the longest time, my bike had a rich(er) smell to it. recetnly when i dropped int eh k&n filter, the smell seemed to mellow out a bit. i may still get it dyno'd and sniffed for ****s-n-giggles.

but the bikes pop, they pop while stock, they pop when modified. a rich bike can pop, a lean bike can pop...but where they pop may be different. lean may pop in the airbox, rich may pop in the exhaust. with stock setup, the pops are muted and contained within the cat or cans. aftermarket exhaust allows it to be more audible, not necessarily more prone to popping. when i picked up my 04 replica, it only remained stock for about 25 miles and it popped a lot during those 25 miles. i really dont have much popping these days. occasionally in the city it lets a few loose, but i considering that my warning to taxis late are more inclined to run me over rather than get out of my way.

repoe3

[JonyRR]

A way to minimize (although not completely eliminate) the popping, at elast on my single-spark '99 is to do the famous '0=0' tb voltage set and BBS (big brasss screw) idle and 3Krpm synch..that subject has been covered to death here. MY bike likes NGK 'conventional' electrode spark plugs much better than the overpriced bosch exotic plugs. Something I've done, which seems to be unique here, is replace the stock BMW coils and wires with nology pieces (www.nology.com); that helped a lot, in my case. YMMV

[repoe3]

how much and what benefit are we talking about with the nology bits?

repoe3

[JonyRR]

Well, repoe, remember I always say YMMV (your milage may vary) and I don't calim it well help YOU, but I've always believed lighting the hottest, longest spark available is a Good Thing. Go to nology.com and do some research. Oops, more to follow..need to dash off and fix a critical server issue...rhe 'red alert' siren is flashing in my office...bye

[repoe3]

i meant to ask how much $$...aside from that, i wasnt trying to be a doubter...thanks.

and i dont think i need any help thanks :P

repoe3

[Hannibal Twin]

JonyRR and Repoe3

Thanks a bunch for the help and information guys. I think I'll have a go with the K&N higher-flow filter in the real near future and see what happens.

Thanks Again

[JonyRR]

Repoe, I thaink I ended up dropping about $250.00 or so at nology. Not hte cheapest bits, but the quality of the spark produced in much, much better. with NGK standard-electrode plugs gapped at .040", the spark is bright blue and huge...it looks like you can strike an arc with it. nology wires have cleaned up the ignition event on every mahcine I've put 'em on, and of course there will be the 'it doesn't make any more HP' whiners out there, and to them I say, it's not about more HP, it's about a complete combustion event, reliably, every time, in conjunction with a correct fuel-air mixture in the idle range...look up my earlier post(s) on 'lean misfire' for a detailed discussion. there's a lot more to it than just that, and it's all inter-related...a lean misfire can produce a RICH mixture because the iginition event did not occur correctly, so the too-lean mixture IS expelled unburnt.... an infrared/EGA illustrates this quite clearly.....

[mbohn]

Originally posted by brad black

pulling ccp on o2 equipped r1100r/gs/rs/rt bikes (usa models) with 2.2 motronic made them run open loop. the chips in those ecu have 4 open loop maps and 4 closed loop maps.

Do you know how to access those 4 open loop maps? I assume the closed loop maps are accessed with the different ccps.

[brad black]

a non usa ccp i assume - you'd just need to look on the etk and see what was listed. i'm not sure if they shared ecu or not back then between models.

that or the ibmwr site should have info. this is stuff i've never really dealt with because we never got them.