The Rules have changed...

[Chris Geuting]

Something interesting from MOTORRAD;
was the VFR pretty much the sport-touring benchmark in the last decade it looks like the new R1200ST could be the one for the new century.While the Sprint ST and the R1100S were challengers the ST kicks its arse...;-)
From the dyno;
R1200ST:112hp/114nm
R1100S:97hp/94nm
VFR:105hp/77nm
ST4S:120hp/98nm
ST3:107hp/97nm
SV1000S:117hp/99nm
Sprint ST:129hp/105nm
weight (wet);
R1200ST:239kg
ST4S:236kg
VFR:249kg
Sprint ST:247kg
R1100S:243kg
performance:0-125mph
R1200ST:11sec
R1100S:15,3sec
Sprint ST:10sec
ST4S:12,7sec
SV1000S:11,7sec
VFR:13,1sec
mpg:
R1200ST:4,5 liters/62miles
R1100S:5,3liter/62miles
VFR:5,3liters/62miles
ST4S:4,8liters/62miles
Sprint ST:5,1liters/62miles
SV1000S:5,5liters/62miles

22lbs lighter than the VFR instead of having driveshaft and faster than everything except for the Sprint ST which is heavier despite having no ABS (so far) and chaindrive.
Best mpg and no more vibrations thanks to the countershaft.Most comfortable (two up) too.
Pretty impressive stuff...

In the last issue they had an interesting comparo that shows that superior performance on paper doesn't neccessarily translate into the real world.The put the new GSXR1000 against the 999R on a track (Ledenon/southern France) ridden by a pro (racer not magazin babbler) to see who is the fastest sportbike money can buy.The Suzuki superior on paper
173 hp/147Ducati,200kg/207Ducati and half as expensive was waxed by the Ducati on the track by 1,2 seconds whih remains the fastes sportbike if you are a super rider and have the money to be able to afford one...
Twins rule!
Chris
By the way the new !200ST has the same peak torque as the new GSRR1000 of 114nm but at 6200 rpm and not 9500 as the Suzi;very impressive for an "old" aircooled twin...
The new R1200S due out this autumn or latest next spring will have another 10-15hp more and additional weight savings over the ST...
But if it will be a solo only and no bags bike for me the ST will do just fine...

[BMW Atlanta]

Afraid to say it, but I am not holding my breath on seeing anything by this autumn resembling an R1200S. We will see a K1200R HP (power cup) before seeing spy photos of any thought of an R1200S. Also doesnt look like the "Power Cup" isn't making it to Laguna

[bikpaintr]

The VFR hasn't been the Sport Touring benchmark for a few years. The Aprilia Futura has won most of the comparisons since it came out in 01 & it looks like the 05 1200cc ST is matching the performance specs Aprilia set 4 years ago with its 990cc engine. When you look at the ST4 specs keep in mind that they come in geared for the moon & nobody leaves them that way. In the actual riding reviews I've read the ST is described as soft & more touring then sport. The ST has the edge on torque but when comparing a 1200 to 1000s I'd expect that. When BMW can produce a 1000cc twin that's competitive with other 1000cc twins I'll get excited.

[BMW Atlanta]

lets not forget oil cooled to water cooled,............makes a huge difference

[Chris Geuting]

The R1200S will be for sale next spring and they probably will show it this autumn especially since the new ST is light years ahead of the 1100S in performance and comfort except for looks...
John I don't know where you get the ST is more on the touring end of the spectrum,did you ride it?It is comfortable yes and goes stronger than a ST4S or Falco for that matter.Unbelievable how different this new boxer feels even compared to the already excellent 1200GS.B.T.W. the Futura was not part of the comparo as they don't make em anymore but it needed another second and a half longer than the ST4S,so 3 seconds off the 1200ST pace and had 105hp/89nm on the dyno and was 10 lbs heavier than the ST despite missing shaft and ABS.
Chris
PS:Looking at the GSHP2 the new R12S will be probably too extreme for a lot now RS/S riders and kind of a Ducati with boxer/ABS/driveshaft which will make a lot riders who waited for boxer engined track machine real happy but the ocasional trackday streetriding and two up sport touring folks will find in the ST1200 the true successor to their now 1100/1150RS and 1100S mounts;my uneducated guess...;-)
The new R1200R and 1200GSAdventure can't be too far off the horizon to complete the boxer line when in two years the 650 sngles an all new belt driven 600/800 T series parallel twins as also the K1200GT will see the light and maybe the chaindriven supersport replica but i don't care for any of them except for the boxers...Hard to believe the diversification and attack in almost all segments of the market to survive.

[bikpaintr]

Originally posted by Chris Geuting
[B]
John I don't know where you get the ST is more on the touring end of the spectrum,did you ride it?It is comfortable yes and goes stronger than a ST4S or Falco for that matter.Unbelievable how different this new boxer feels even compared to the already excellent 1200GS.B.T.W. the Futura was not part of the comparo as they don't make em anymore but it needed another second and a half longer than the ST4S,so 3 seconds off the 1200ST pace and had 105hp/89nm on the dyno and was 10 lbs heavier than the ST despite missing shaft and ABS.
Chris

Chris - The numbers you quoted in your first post are factory crankshaft hp figures & not rearwheel dyno figures. The same figures for the Futura are 115hp, not 105. Look in the back of any Motorcyclist in the Hard Numbers section, 01 Futura 11:09 @ 123mph in the qtr mile. The only way the Futura would do a 14 sec qtr mile is with 2 flat tires. If you are going to post info at least try to stay within the realm of believability. As I mentioned in my first post the comments about the ST being soft came from recent write ups I've read. The comments weren't meant to be critical they just said that next to the ST4s, Triumph, ect it wasn't as much fun to ride. As to the ST being stronger then the Falco I think you're dreaming.

[Chris Geuting]

John,not dreaming at all and no butched up factory numbers,either.They are all test numbers taken from the last sport-tourig comparo from MOTORRAD No.1 european moto-mag.The hp/torque numbers are crankshaft hp taken on a dynojet 150 dyno...
Sorry but the Futura will see only the 1200ST taillight.The rues have changed as time moves on.The only bike faster in the sports-tourer class is the new Sprint ST but no ABS available and of course no clean maintenance free driveshaft either so really the fastest sports-tourer with another 37hp/22nm and roughly the same wet weight is BMW's own K1200S that is another 3 seconds faster 0-125mph than the Sprint ST.
Chris

[bikpaintr]

Originally posted by Chris Geuting
Sorry but the Futura will see only the 1200ST taillight.

"If wishs were horses dreamers would ride". I will agree that the tail light is the most appealing end of the ST to look at though.

[tbsstunta]

Originally posted by Chris Geuting
The only bike faster in the sports-tourer class is the new Sprint ST but no ABS available and of course no clean maintenance free driveshaft either so really the fastest sports-tourer with another 37hp/22nm and roughly the same wet weight is BMW's own K1200S that is another 3 seconds faster 0-125mph than the Sprint ST.
Chris

To be fair, the Sprint ST has no splines to shear off, and if you want to believe that never changing the final drive fluid is a good idea more power to you.

The Sprint costs five or six grand less than the R-ST (my local dealer offered me one at 9500 + tax out the door), that's a whole bunch of chains and sprockets.

The Sprint ST-ABS will be available by the middle of 2005.