Lessons Learned

'Tis me again

Just returned from a great track day at Thruxton Circuit. Man, is that a fast track! This track time has taught me a lot about my R11S. The main lesson is that it is not a track bike. I cannot praise it enough as a road bike, but it's limitations are shown up on a race circuit. Even with the short GS arm and rear shock preload jacked up, the valve covers were still touching down too easily, and when it happens, it's not nice. Entertaining though for following riders, who tell me that the magnesium produces lots of nice sparks. The second thing is you really notice the weight when trying to muscle it around. But I do have to say that it was supremely stable in the longer sweeping curves once I had got the damping adjusted right. I'm talking nearly max lean angle at 110mph. Superb. But for future track days I will be sticking with my NS400.

This being a BMW organised track day, they had their test fleet available for rides, so I took out a standard S with the standard long paralever arm just to remind me of the difference. Boy oh boy, I thought I was riding the R1200C custom cruiser. It made me realise why I had fitted the GS arm.


Regards

Andy
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Pipe & Slippers


[This message has been edited by Andrew Stemp (edited 06-10-2000).]

BTW, I forgot to mention that during the proceedings I witnessed a nasty accident right in front of me. Another S rider piled into a fast right hander quicker than his confidence would allow. He bottled, braked, ran wide, hit the grass and was off. He slid along and was able to walk away. The bike however went end over end and was totalled. We later learned that the S was his first bike. The only other bike he had ridden was at the school he attended to pass his test. He would easily have made the corner if he had tried. Do you think an R1100S is a good bike for a complete novice? And should the dealers act more responsibly when selling bikes to beginners?

Andy

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Pipe & Slippers

[1bigdawg]

Hi Andy

Well, in my opinion, something needs to be done to address the situation of beginning riders even climbing on to a 600, without some classes or something.

Anyone who is able to ride a bicycle has the ability to ride a motorcycle. Most people don't think it is much different than riding a bicycle. It is just bigger, heavier and has a motor. Foolish mortals.

Ideas need to come from all aspects of the sport and sport touring sector. Mfg's, dealers, new rider's, experienced rider's, racing promotor's, race tracks and anyone else, (EXCEPT GOVERNMENT AGENCIES). We need to be a SRO, self regulating organization. If the government gets involved any more than they are it will make life more difficult than it already is.

I know some countries has some restrictions, but here in the US, if you have the money and can afford the insurance the bike is yours. That is really scarry. Not for me personally, but for the industry as a whole.

I would have to say that those of us that go out on the public back roads to enjoy the twisties, know exactly what the negative sides are and that not only our lives are at risk but those of people we don't even know. The image of what could happens is my rev limiter. I still have plenty of fun, I'm just not pushing the envelope. Riding fast in the twisties and staying in your lane can be very challenging.

Recently I stopped by the closest dealer to my house which happened to be a Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha dealer and back in the parts dept they were showing videos of bikes doing wheelies down the freeways. I do not think that is the proper message the dealership should be presenting to the beginning rider or anyone for that matter. Want to see it, buy the video. Hopping on a bike lets plenty of adrenaline into the system, we do not need to give riders any ideas.

Nick in phx

[roger albert]

Hi Guys,

I agree Andrew. Very poor judgement from a dealer. Its a tough call, as while its horribly irresponsible, I'm with Nick in that I don't want the gov't involved. Still, those that don't regulate themselves are bound to have some sort of regulation imposed. Its tough to legislate decency, responsibility, or judgement (which the rider seemed to lack as well) I'm reasonably experienced, and I can still freeze once in a while - I can't imagine doing a track day as a rank beginner. That having been said, the only person I know who did do one very early in their MC career (within the 1st year) did do just fine. She did however freeze on the street about 2 months later - I and her other friends miss her a lot. She was pretty cautious and didn't have a particularly powerful mount (NT650) - just lapsed.

Still, the extra HP and speed only make it worse. I REALLY hate the idea of the govt
mixing in, but I don't know, realistically rather than idealistically, how anything other than a mandatory tiered licencing scheme could help. Even that's no guarantee. Wish I had an answer for this one. Its a lot easier to spout on objective stuff like suspension science - human nature is a much trickier 'science' sigh.

later all
be safe
roger

[markjenn]

The problem with tiered licensing is that nobody has shown that it reduces accidents. In WA state where I live, they had a tiered scheme, but there was no good data showing that it helped at all, so they dropped it.

I don't have any big issue with someone going to a track day very early in their career. This gent who had the getoff likely saved himself from a much worse accident on the street. The bike may be totalled, but he walked away. This is exactly what the track is for. So you could argue that he is showing responsiblity rather than irresponsibility.

I don't have the answer, but I deplore the "ultimate performance" criteria that seems to be the only yardstick that magazines use to test sport bikes. They pay lip service to comfort and street suitability, but then invariably always pick the bike that is the fastest in a straight line and corners. The current crop of front-line sportbikes are wonderful weapons, but they just don't have much applicability to how we must use these bikes on the street with any margin of safety. Don't get me wrong - I go awfully fast on the street sometimes and really appreciate a sharp bike, but it seems like the leaders in the industry could do something to shift the focus away from absolute performance and more to how well-rounded a job a motorcycle does in all the activites we ask them to do.

I fear that unless this focus changes pretty soon, the sport will become even more polarized between the squids, cruisers, and tourers and the government will be forced to step in and do some pretty heavy-handed regulation.

- Mark

Here in the UK we have a tiered type of licence system but it is age related, to prevent youngsters being able to go out, pass their test and buy an R1. They are limited to 33bhp for two years. Older folk however, can pass their test on a CB500 then jump straight on a Hayabusa if they please. The main limiting factor for younger riders here is the fact that insurers won't cover them, or if they do, they charge unaffordable premiums.

When we apply for our driving licences we are taught to pass a test, not how to ride a bike. Proper training and experience count for everything. The majority of riders on the road are self taught, and have never had proper training of any description.

A K1200 rider at the track who had been riding for many years said he considered himself a good fast road rider, but had never ridden on a track before. He said he felt totally destroyed because I was 30 seconds a lap quicker than him with a 40bhp disadvantage, but I had the advantage of previous track experience even though I hadn't ridden at this circuit before, I also listened to the instructor when he was breifing us on correct lines etc. and didn't take the attitude that I couldn't be taught anything just because I had been riding for 20 years. Attitude is a big stumbling block when it comes to advanced training. You can't teach people if they are not prepared to listen, or think they know it all already.

You must be bored of me by now, sorry!

Andy

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Pipe & Slippers

[roger albert]

Hi,

Yeah, markjenn makes some good comments on tiered licensing. I think though, that that licensing scheme can vary a lot in implementation and thus effectiveness. There are a lot of ways to set that up, and none of them should be a substitute for adequate training. Many states here don't even have the minimal training the UK requires. I've never lived in any state with a good system. When living in Germany, the system seemed relatively thorough, but still not ideal.
All other things being equal, and 18 year old has to be better off with 40hp than 120, it seems to me. Like in the UK, we might have a bit of a defacto tiering system via insurance. Most 18yr olds can't afford insurance on an R1

And Andy, I'm personally not bored yet. I figure we're on here because we want to hear others views. I liked your track right up.
(even though I was disappointed to read that an S, which already carries the motor higher, and has the sport package on top of that, still ground the cylinders down

later
roger

Talking again of the sticky out bits touching the tarmac, today I was watching the Moto GP of Catalunya on satellite TV. They showed one of the support races which happed to be the Boxer Cup. Now as you're probably aware, this is a race series in which all the entrants are forced to ride R1100S's! And I'm talking of riders like Luca Cadalora and Jurgen Fuchs no less. I recorded the race on my VCR so that I could do a bit of stop frame analysis. It appeared to me that these R11's ride somewhat higher than our showroom models and you could tell from the way the guys were riding that some were still scared of grounding the covers out. Looking closely, some had either special rocker covers or some kind of protector, most of which were very worn by the end of the race. What worried me, apart from being chucked off, was that if I had continued to ground the engine lap after lap, it would have worn right through and I would have lost all my engine oil. Not good for me or following riders. It's still the best road bike I've ever had though.

Regards all

Andy

P.S. I've just been surfing (the net) and found the regulations for the Boxer Cup which is run by BMW Belgium. If my translation is correct, it looks as though the covers are replaced with narrower ones made from aluminium not magnesium and are fitted with plastic covers.

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Pipe & Slippers


[This message has been edited by Andrew Stemp (edited 06-11-2000).]

[Jon Green]

I agree the S is not the best 'first' choice. Too heavy, at least until you build confidence/experience. Unfortunately a lot of dealers are sales whores. Most see the recent trend of born again & direct access licencees as increased parts revenue. My insurance premium reflects this also.

At least the unfortunate soul messed up under controlled circumstances & lived to tell the tale. They obviously felt the need for training, it's just a shame that the lesson was a costly one.

I didn't attend the track day because of the cost (around twice that of a normal track session) & BMW's billing of an off road training session, whatever that meant. I know that you never stop learning, but I had visions of paying £50/hr. to follow an ex-traffic cop around the racing line at sensible speeds. I was obviously wrong, it sounds like a top day out & Thruxton is less than 30 miles away, damn.

Andrew, how did your brakes hold up? Have you tried your dealer for the revised pads available under psuedo warranty (see silent recalls thread)?

[Jon Green]

I agree the S is not the best 'first' choice. Too heavy, at least until you build confidence/experience. Unfortunately a lot of dealers are sales whores. Most see the recent trend of born again & direct access licencees as increased parts revenue. My insurance premium reflects this also.

At least the unfortunate soul messed up under controlled circumstances & lived to tell the tale. They obviously felt the need for training, it's just a shame that the lesson was a costly one.

I didn't attend the track day because of the cost (around twice that of a normal track session) & BMW's billing of an off road training session, whatever that meant. I know that you never stop learning, but I had visions of paying £50/hr. to follow an ex-traffic cop around the racing line at sensible speeds. I was obviously wrong, it sounds like a top day out & Thruxton is less than 30 miles away, damn.

Andrew, how did your brakes hold up? Have you tried your dealer for the revised pads available under psuedo warranty (see silent recalls thread)?

[Jon Green]

I agree the S is not the best 'first' choice. Too heavy, at least until you build confidence/experience. Unfortunately a lot of dealers are sales whores. Most see the recent trend of born again & direct access licencees as increased parts revenue. My insurance premium reflects this also.

At least the unfortunate soul messed up under controlled circumstances & lived to tell the tale. They obviously felt the need for training, it's just a shame that the lesson was a costly one.

I didn't attend the track day because of the cost (around twice that of a normal track session) & BMW's billing of an off road training session, whatever that meant. I know that you never stop learning, but I had visions of paying £50/hr. to follow an ex-traffic cop around the racing line at sensible speeds. I was obviously wrong, it sounds like a top day out & Thruxton is less than 30 miles away, damn.

Andrew, how did your brakes hold up? Have you tried your dealer for the revised pads available under psuedo warranty (see silent recalls thread)?

[Jon Green]

Don't know how I managed to post the same reply 3 times!

Oops.

JG

[This message has been edited by Jon Green (edited 06-12-2000).]

[roger albert]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if Speedvision carried the Boxer Cup support race here in the states?
Anyone tape it? If so, is there anyone who could be bribed to dub a copy. I'd be more than glad to cover tape and postage costs, and maybe the cost of and additional tape or beer (or a copy of an Isle of man video) in return for the effort. TIA

regards
roger

[dfaber]

I have DirectTV which searches during down time for any "motorcycle racing" television event. No Boxer Cup has appeared on any TV schedule in Chicago.

I would love to see a tape of this race as well. I also would appreciate any info on the exact modifications made to the bikes.

Jon, The brakes held up better than I thought, I will persevere with them for the time being and see how they go (or stop!). After the first hour of the track day we were let loose to do our own thing. It was a bit expensive, but most good things are. There are more BMW day's coming up.

The Boxer Cup was shown here on Eurosport Channel. It doesn't last long at 10 laps. Probably because if it were any longer they would wear right through the rocker covers. If they show the next race in the series I will tape it and keep it. We can figure out what to do with it later.

Andy

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Pipe & Slippers

[markjenn]

I had the pleasure of being in Lemans about three weeks ago to see the French R1100S Boxer Cup on the Sat before the GP races.

Wow, what fun. There were two guys in the front who must have changed leads at least 30-times during the race, including three or four lead changes on the final lap. I had a great spot too, near the finish line, but with a good view of the diamond vision TV screen so we watched the whole race, even when it was out of sight.

And man, there is no sound like 30 or 40 boxers with loud pipes going down the straight at redline. It sounded exactly like two or three B-17s were roaring over at treetop level.

I hope this URL works:
http://www.fotki.com/?cmd=showalbum&user_id=700&co=&album_id=25332870&f_id=19550&photo_id=421984180

My buddies are trying to talk me into painting my heads and wheels blue like this bike.

- Mark