Zeroing in on a R11S but it's tough.

[Dave Swanson]

I have been reading the mail here and the main list for quite some time. One of the bikes I admire very much is the R1100S. I was able to test ride one and was quite impressed. I have always admired the RS series over the years, but have never owned a BMW. I like all the marquees out there from Moto Guzzi to Ducati and everything in between. I have owned, and enjoyed Honda's over the years and currently have 3 CBX's (love em). I want my next machine to be more sport oriented. So I am zeroing in on a mint '99 R11S with 1500 miles and I stop by a out of town Honda dealer yesterday. He has the gall to offer a $2000 discount on another bike that I like alot, the CBR929rr. Now the local dealers aren't discounting them 1 penny and he throws that at me. Of course I am in a quandry even more now. Both are great bikes 929 - R11S, both are reliable, and both would be fun. Ergos on the 929 aren't much more radical than the BMW. But now the 929 is 3k less expensive. I know which bike you folks tend to like. I just thought I would throw this out on the board so you guys can talk about something other than surging for a while. I am waffling. I think owning my first BMW is slipping away from me.

[Bob Hancock]

Dave,
The main diff is the ergo's, IMHO. The 929 is a different KIND of bike than the S, so you really need to decide what kind of bike you want. I have a '99 S and a new 996 Ducati. While the Duc is great I can not imagine it being my only bike...it's just too committed...too hard, while the S is good at everything like a couch should be but not great at anything.
I guess that's why folks have bike stables )
Bob Hancock
'99 R11S
'01 996

[JeffD]

It all depends on what you want to do. Insurance on the S is much lower and you can do most of the maint. on the S yourself so right there you are cutting into the savings over the Honda. I think the S would be a much better tourer than the Honda but the Honda would be much faster around the race track. If you have to go 165 mph get the Honda if 140 mph is fast enough the S is pretty hard to beat, either way you are getting a great bike. Jeff

[YAHBO]

STYLE, baby! That cookie cutter 929 ain't got it...the S gots it. End of story. Thank you very little.

[dirtclod]

If you have never owned a BMW then you owe it
too yourself to get the 1100 sport. Take it
on a long trip and you will really start to
understand the bike and why so many ride
BMW. Also if you end up deciding that it is
really not for you, you should be able to
recover your purchase price. Not likely to
do that with the Honda once it has left the
showroom.

[Oilhead259]

Just returned from 700mi trip through MA & VT. My riding partner was on his new 929RR. He went only marginally faster through the switchbacks & mountain roads (he was just back from Code's school at Pocono too!) But I was supremely comfortable while he went through half a bottle of Aleve. If you are not financially able to own more than one bike, the R1100S is the only way to fly!!

[zx9rmal]

Re: Bob's post, are you kidding man? The R11S is great in at least one thing........LOOKS!! You don't see yourself coming the other way 30 times a day.

I owned a 929 for a while. I'm very much a Honda man as far as Japanese bikes go. The 929 is a pure sportbike. Way more power, handling and flickability. BUT............
not including the super brave (or stupid), if you ride at sane aggressive speeds on the street, the R11S will stay with anything, except maybe in VERY tight hairpins. I've owned about every top sport bike over the last few years. The R11S isn't the fastest, quickest, best handling sport bike out there, but in the "real" world, who's gonna use all that performance. Sure, I've GPS'd myself at 191 on my 'Busa, but it's ridiculous! You lose the sense of pure fun. On all these overpowered bikes I need to be sooooo focused on what I'm doing, that I lose that fun factor. It's like drugs. A rush.

If you've never owned a 929 type sportbike, you're missing something. BUT, they are a dime a dozen. Every punk kid has one. The bikes should come with a set of flip flops, sandals, and a tank top.

The R11S is unique. There is NOTHING like it. PERIOD! You get to use ALL the thing has in power and handling. And, there is that pride of ownership thing.......everyone stares at them. And for me, one of the more fun things about the bike is watching the expression on other riders' faces when they can't believe how the ****ing thing out handles there bikes!!!!!!!!!!!

[DavidSoine]

Last weekend I did the north shore of Lake Superior on the S - about 1700 miles in three days...try that on the 929! I think not.

I'd say put a picture of each bike up on your wall where you work and buy the one that you still find yourself looking at in a week. Take a guess right now which one it will be...



-ds

[herbg]

Not to mention that the R11S is THE ultimate sleeper.

There's nothing better than surprising the h*** out of the Ducati's, GSXR's, R1's of the world when they just can't seem to lose you in the twisties. They just can't figure out how an "underpowered touring bike" can perform so well.

The bike is SO underrated and completely underestimated in it's sophistication.

Here's another point to consider ... resale value. Ask yourself what a 929 is worth 3 or 4 years from now? Well, around here (southern Ontario, Canada) BMW's seem to hold their value. You may pay a premium for a BMW but you should be able to retain that value much longer than another brand.

Good luck,

Herb...

[jrd]

Last point is a very good one, resale. On the R11S you get to drive your money around without it burning out the tailpipe.

Hondas, well I love'em, but how many 929's are lined up at every local dealer. Too many. Which makes them very popular, popular for parts - yours. I'm not afraid to park the BMW in NYC, people admire the machine instead of wanting to pinch it. There are vans driving around town looking to boost every Far East bike on the street. i think the Beemer's a bit safer.

Also, how old are you? I had a CBR1100xx as my first bike, and did a buck-35 once. But I was younger, and i was lworking out my "Speed Racer" mode. I slowed down, looked at my 3 kids, and went for the Beemer.

Much more mature choice- BMW acknowledges the compromises of owning one bike - this one fills the bill on all counts.

The streets are not made for Honda's missiles, the BMW is for the streets.

I have 2000 miles on my R1100SLA, and I am more convinced every day that it was the right choice.

[The Bee]

Three thousand difference? That's one expensive 929 !!! Around here, I can get a brand new 929 for $6000.00 less and guess why?
Because they're discounting last years AND the year before models that they still have laying around. I looked, test rode all the Japanese machines that looked good ... and bought my R1100S. I have not regretted a single second of it. I switch off to my friends R1 occasionally and it's fun for about 30 minutes... REAL FAST! Smooth even, but no soul, no heart, just another UJM that will be in the scrap heap in 5 or 6 years and all but forgotten in two years when the next whoopy machine comes out. I swithc off onto my Bro-in-Laws R1150T ... nice change for about an hour... and then I want my S back!

Went to an Italian show and shine today. They wouldn't let me park my bike with thier Ferrari's and Ducati's and Maserati's and Laverda's. So I parked it 50' further away and every time I circled back near my S, there was a crowd looking at it. I had no less than 8 people approach me and want to talk about it, with 2 younger guys even asking me if I would be willing to take them around the block (declined).

Went for a ride up a famous mountain road near here a few weeks ago and stopped in at a cafe for lunch with my R1 buddy and another UJM owner. 5 bikes pull in .. come in to the restaurant ... walk up to us and sit down ... "Who owns the BMW"?. ... Ten minutes later .... exactly the same thing...
Want attention, buy the S. Want recognition, buy the S. Want a "sleeper", buy the S. Want a bike that will look great in 5 years - 10 years, buy the S. Want a bike that you can double your lady friend without busting her but .. buy the S. Oh, and this is my 60+th motorcycle and first BMW.
Just my opinion and I am entitled to it <G>.
Cheers.
Garry.



[This message has been edited by The Bee (edited 06-17-2001).]

[motoman]

Go ahead Dave, buy the 929! If you've got 3 CBX's already (!) why break your string? If you want to save some money, buy the Honda! If you want a fast, smooth, bike, and you like oiling chains, buy the Honda! But did you notice how the prices on the 900RR went to ***** when the 929 came out? And how the same thing happened when the '98 900RR came out? Gee, Dave, do ya think THAT MIGHT HAPPEN AGAIN?? Have you seen the price of a NINETEEN-SEVENTY-SIX R90/S lately? Bargain today, dog tomorrow...

Now don't get me wrong--I have two other Honda's but not sport bikes, and they build a nice reliable bike, and it is easily the choice if money is your only concern.

[markjenn]

I agree wholeheartedly with all these sentiments about how great BMWs are, but you guys are blowing the resale value thing a little out of proportion.

R11S's have not held their values particularly well - they may be doing a little better than the Japanese bikes, but not a lot better.

Let's look at a 99 R11S vs. a 99 VFR. The VFR is worth about 62% of new price. A 99 R11S is worth about 63% (trade-in values). And since you spent $4100 more for the R11S to being with, the better resale value for the BMW just slightly reduces your losses. In fact, it cost you $4800 in depreciation to drive your BMW for a couple years vs. $3600 for the VFR. The final nail in the resale coffin is how easy it is to sell. I'd MUCH rather be selling a two-year old VFR than a two-year old R11S. They are easily five times as many people interested in buying the VFR for $6K vs. the BMW for $9K.

And if you want to talk vintage resale, a nice 1976 Honda CB750K6 is probably worth about what a 1976 R90 is. Anything that is old and kept in nice shape eventually is worth serious money, it doesn't matter what it is.

BMW's are great bikes, but I think you're seeing the world through rose-colored glasses if you try and convince yourself that they are good bikes because of resale value. They cost more initially and they cost more to ride. They're worth if for many people, but they're not cheap rides.

- Mark

[motoman]

Mark: I would agree with the general comments about R11S resale. However, there are several factors: The market is soft right now, there are LOTS of bikes out there, and most importantly, I think the R11S is a sleeper. Not many people know about it, or lump it in with other BMW's. I think as the years go by, the low production numbers on the S, it's durability, and more riders discovering it will tend to keep resale fairly high. The used S's I've seen have extremely low miles, and to me represent disenchanted riders who don't understand the bike, or buy it just to try it out. So, buy up used S's now at low prices while you can!

[JF]

Dave, it sounds like you keep your bikes for quite some time. Which one would you like to see in your garage 6 years from now?

[Dave Swanson]

Thanks for all the input. FYI, I am 47 have 2 kids, a wife in a wheelchair, and 3 dogs. I think I'll stop and take the RS out for another test this week. One thing about the 929. I think it is as close to classic Jap as they come. If you have a nice '92 (first year) in stock trim it's holding it's value quite well. May never hold true for a 2001 though. Honda is bumping it up to a 1000cc next year so the 2001's will be like yesterday's newspaper when the word gets around. After a great deal of thought over the weekend and thanks in part to your responses I have decided to put off the decision for a while longer. Hows that for being decisive!! Thanks again.

[GatsR11S]

I just have to chime in and agree with what most have stated here.
The S is my first Beemer and I don't think I could have made a better choice for an all-round bike. Whether commuting, cruising, touring or scratching, it does it all well in my eyes. Maybe not great in any particular field, but well nonetheless.

I was out with a friend (late model RGV250) having a play on the twisties north of Sydney on Sunday and unconsciously took off after a pair of Japanese 'hyper-sports', namely a R1 and GSX-R-type. Had a ball following this pair until the pillion started screaming - namely at the 3rd bike that was between ourselves and the two others to get out of the way. I had forgotten momentarily about m'lady.
The S took it all in it's stride and the little Fat Man is not looking too good on the edge of the rear Pilot Sport!

I have to admit to not feeling as confident on any bike as I do on the S. Sure it has it's idiosyncrasies but it has character and the 'look' that attracts attention from all walks, no matter where it is, and confidence inspiring stability.

I imagine I'll be keeping this baby a while. Don't sell yourself, or the S, short. Give it a go - I'm glad I did.

My 2 Aussie pesos worth.

Gary.
Blessed with a GREAT pillion to boot!

[Conrad (RAD) Sudduth]

Dave

Us S guys and gals are gong to say buy the S. I am sure the 929 boys and girls are going to tell you to buy the 929. You have ridden them both, trust your instincts. I firmly believe that motorcycle buying is more about passion that anything else. Which bike touches your soul?

Rad

[Rootboy]

Dave, your profile says you are from Rockford...If that is Rockford, IL than go with the S. I can personally vouch for the S...I just spent the weekend carving up the twisties of Northwest Il. and Southwest Wisconsin...My S is the first new bike I've ever owned and the first bike I have owned in 20 years! The Honda is a sweet ride, but your waisting your money if in fact you live in Illinois...two short a riding season and very few places to really take advantage of the Honda's manners. Japanese sport bikes are a dime a dozen in the Chicago area. Trust me, There owners flock to the S when they see me on the street...They have no idea what it is... the same with the guys riding American Iron...Ultimaly, If you want to be unique, go with S. Besides, your too old to be runnin' with the Squids!!
BYW, good luck trying to find a new S around the Midwest..they are few and far between.

[motoman]

Originally posted by Dave Swanson:
One thing about the 929. I think it is as close to classic Jap as they come. If you have a nice '92 (first year) in stock trim it's holding it's value quite well. After a great deal of thought over the weekend and thanks in part to your responses I have decided to put off the decision for a while longer. Hows that for being decisive!! Thanks again.

What a waste of time! That's the LAST time I ever care about whether a Honda guy buys an S.