Message from Wayne...

[Wayne 962]

Message from Wayne:

First of all, I applaud you guys for having an unparalleled enthusiasm for the board and the bikes. That is a rare element, and is commendable.

But yikes, I go away (to SEMA) for a week, and all hell breaks loose.

Firstly, you guys need to just relax for a moment. I made blkongry a moderator to protect and help out with *all* of the BMW forums. He recently received quite a few PMs / emails from several of the members here on the R1100S board that were unhappy with all of the Off-Topic posts, and requested that they be moved to the OT forum. These were requests made by YOUR MEMBERS to remove posts - NOT HIS DOING. As far as I could tell, these posts were merely moved to the OT forum (as some members had indeed requested) and not deleted. Contrary to what some people have stated, there are many R1100S members who post in the OT forum regularly.

So now you guys are all discussing moving the forums to another place because blkongry moved *two* posts to OT? Seems unreasonable to me. Other forums on the net that are completely open and "unmediated" quickly become a cesspool of junk and OT posts that dilute the benefits of a technical forum. Trust me, I've seen it many places. After this happens, then people stop coming and the forum dies. As your "enlightened despot" in this situation, I will tell you, your best interest remains in keeping the forum here.

The only mistake that blkongry has made was his sincere attempts to explain rational moderation to a small group of people who just love to argue. I have dealt with issues like these for many years now, and the best strategy is to just do it (move the posts), and shut down any complaints very quickly so that they don't fester into a large discussion on the merits of moderation philosophy. This keeps the forums focused, on-topic, and attracts new members who come here searching for good, technical information.

-Wayne

P.S. I will allow people to respond to this message, and then I will close this thread.

[Raging InfeRno]

Can't argue with what you said. I personally haven't encountered any problem with this moderator, to the contrary I've found him very helpful.

[aap1966]

When it all comes down to it: your board, your rules.

Cheers

[Bails]

Wayne ,suits me, I think we have the system worked out , and the new bike will be out soon and we will have lots of tech stuff to fill our minds with and that will be that,

[Dan Alexander]

Hey Wayne,

It's good to know that we are still welcome here, there did seem to be some pretty valid doubts. I'm sure the hotter heads will cool down and then we can get back to the board that we all enjoy so much.

Thanks

[pwillikers]

Wayne, I agree 100%. I appreciate this forum. I come to PP to talk bikes and chuckle at the antics of the occasional chucklehead, but primarily to talk bikes. Keep the hostile and offensive crap out but be liberal in not tossing OT threads. This is a vibrant community of long time posters who know each other well. The discussions often go pleasantly far afield with no harm to anyone.

To make us more valuable to you, why not start selling bimmer bike parts, maybe just aftermarket comsumables like oil filters? We'd all buy them. I currently support PP by buying parts for my 328 and will continue to do so enthusiastically (as well as recruit new customers when the opportunity presents itself). I would have never known PP existed without this R1100S forum.

And while I'm at it... when are you going to start selling Honda auto parts? Most Bimmer owner's wives drive high mileage Hondas that consume replacement parts in vast quantities. Where's your market research department?

[Bob Hancock]

Wayne. We're kinda all worked up about the new S but we don't have much to talk about cos the R11S has been drummed to deal. This board has evolved to much more than any one of us, so just let us fester for awhile...we'll be OK. And your new moderator is doing fine....very reasonable about things. He needs to get a bike though.

[on2wheels52]

Wayne
Thanks for some fresh air. I am no major poster, rational writing takes effort I need elsewhere in my life. After finding this site I read it backwards to get up to speed, mostly looking for tech items but soon saw something else was going on. You start to get to know the regulars and can tell the topic may not be what you're looking for but you read it to see what Mr. X had to say. This site is usually my second stop when online, I like the "community" term others have used to describe it. "Silent Majority" isn't in style but still has some members. I would like to see this site continue.
Jim

[wswartzwel]

Wayne,
Thanks for letting us use your space, and for letting us know that you're not fixing to pull the plug.
BTW cool avatar!

[motoyoyo]

Wayne, your comments are well appreciated by all of us. Yes, you are probably right about some of us being a bit testy (as in testosterone) prone when it comes to confrontation. Without a doubt, this is the best run board I've ever come accross and for all the reasons you suggest. Also, it is in large part due to the efforts and contributions of our own community members and your moderator, Roger Albert. I think every one of us has developed a great respect for his contributions and his ultimate authority over us all.

I think the issue that has irritated some of us to the breaking point is the fact that your stickey remains as a daily reminder that we could lose this forum at a moments notice.

"This is a free forum for R1100S owners, and frankly, if I shut it down tomorrow, it wouldn't matter to me one bit. I'd probably think about it for about 30 seconds and then move on to my morning coffee. I'd actually gain some bandwidth back.

I realize this repremand was in fact due to a real situation that was over the top for you as well as the rest of us. However, I think the point was made and it now only serves as a reminder to us that we are not appreciated and can be vaporized into cyberspace like a lousy Twilight Zone episode. Deleting this thread when it runs its course is a good idea too, but how about also deleting your sticky message at the top of the forum as well.

Thanks for hosting us all this time. I also like the idea pwillikers had about offering some R1100S consumables for sale. It would certainly give a good reason for us being here in the first place and make us feel like we actually have some value to your business.

[RoundelRider]

Originally posted by motoyoyo
I think the issue that has irritated some of us to the breaking point is the fact that your stickey remains as a daily reminder that we could lose this forum at a moments notice.

"This is a free forum for R1100S owners, and frankly, if I shut it down tomorrow, it wouldn't matter to me one bit. I'd probably think about it for about 30 seconds and then move on to my morning coffee. I'd actually gain some bandwidth back.

I realize this repremand was in fact due to a real situation that was over the top for you as well as the rest of us. However, I think the point was made and it now only serves as a reminder to us that we are not appreciated and can be vaporized into cyberspace like a lousy Twilight Zone episode. Deleting this thread when it runs its course is a good idea too, but how about also deleting your sticky message at the top of the forum as well.

+1

[AudreyB]

Wayne,

Perhaps creating a separate chat room for those who are under the influence of schizophrenia would be in order.

bmwforums.net Forum Index -> The Bar
Subject: Thank goodness for this forum....

http://www.bmwforums.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1988&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

motoyoyo: Wed Nov 02, 2005
"I think you guys should look into taking over the Pelican database and then we should unleash what we really think about Pelican Parts. Get Wayne all freaked and kick us all out, lmao. (FU)"

Roger Albert's permissive and inconsistent moderating style has allowed this forum to be taken over by some who wish for it to be their own chitty chat room. A place to act out, a place to post what they whimsically please (off the wall topics), a haven of thread hi-jacking, interrupting technical threads with personal exchanges about meeting/rendezvous locations and willy-nilly posting of half-naked women draped across motorcycles within tech threads - the list goes on.

A thread still exists on this forum wherein there is a discussion about how to get a woman drunk, take naked photos of her, and then lie to her about confidentiality.

The charming '04 holiday exchange between Steve Carlton and Shannonnunley:
Steve Carlton: "How many drinks do you recommend for helmet on/clothes off?"

shannonnunley: "Depends entirely on the girl.... Amy did all her shoots dead sober. The most important thing is to reassure them you will NOT post them on the internet. Tee hee."

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads4/amy+0581101773159.jpg

For this to be allowed on your BMW R1100S Tech Forum is appalling, don't you think?

Leave your "Sticky" up there. You have here a small group of defiant forums members who, over the years, have been allowed to want what they want, and when they want it. This small group has demonstrated a lack of respect for the broader group and for what this tech forum was and is intended. Namely, a place for its members to seek out technical information about their BMW R1100S motorcycles without having to wade through a rash of silly BS.

When I read the subject line, "A gentle topic reminder", I cringed at the word "gentle." It's been disheartening to watch blkongry engage and interact with whining forum members regarding what is OT and what is not. Most, if not all, of the the members of this small group of defiant whiners are also members of bmwforums.net where they yuck it up to their heart's content.

I agree with you Wayne, make the statement clear about what will be accepted and not, give everyone ONE chance at violation, then STFU. Ban anyone on their second violation. A forum moderator does NOT ban a member, a member's behavior bans that member. Nothing personal on the moderator's part is involved.

There exists a group of us members who tend to be less vocal, who don't like the direction this forum has gone in the past few years. We exchange emails about this subject. This post of mine is representative of the view of that group.

Respect, AudreyB

[Steve Carlton]

Wayne, thanks for speaking up, and more so for providing this space for the community that has evolved here. No one here really wants to relocate; that option was discussed to save the database as a resource when it appeared this forum could disappear if it became too much trouble for you.

Perhaps I'm one you consider an 'arguer' or Roger a 'whiner.' I've only sought clarification, discussion, and understanding of the rules here. When I joined here, it wasn't obvious to me where the limits were, and I didn't see them clearly indicated anywhere. My understanding, via Roger's moderation, is that everything should be R1100S-related, or moto-related. A small amount of OT was allowed from each member, especially if marked "OT."

In learning this balance, I've had quite a few posts moved to the OT forum. Prior to blkongry's moderation, there wasn't a flagged link indicating such a move had taken place (which is helpful). In respecting Roger's intentions, and as a result of being moved to another sandbox, I have become an active participant in the OT forum. I see maybe 5 R1100S members posting there, versus maybe 100 active members here. There's a lot more different members over there, but it's not the same as here. It's like being a stranger at a party over there and having the wrong haircut. Over here, we have a community with a common interest, and we get to know each other pretty well. I've made several internet friends here, and several real-life friends as well.

I was not aware there were those that complained privately about OT posts until recently. I venture to guess they're not regular posters here; I rarely see a complaint posted about an OT thread unless it's of a political or religious nature. Seems to me, the vast majority of active posters here like a to chat about other stuff as well. Our marquee topic has finished it's seventh year of production, with not much changed.

Anyway, thanks again for providing this useful resource. I'll try not to wear out my welcome here.

[motoyoyo]

Originally posted by AudreyB

There exists a group of us members who tend to be less vocal, who don't like the direction this forum has gone in the past few years. We exchange emails about this subject. This post of mine is representative of the view of that group.

Respect, AudreyB

I guess we know who one of the internet police biotches is now.

[ckcarr]

I wasn't going to say anything here as I believe I had expressed my views fairly well here: A gentle reminder post and think this may just reduntantly redo all that was said previously.

But I feel I do have to say that if a lurker such as AudreyB, who now has a total of three posts to her credit, never effectively posts anything of substance, has provided no technical expertise, and yet is allowed to dictate our conversations, topics, and direction by behind the scenes complaints to the moderators - well, I doubt anything would be said here at all - good or bad. A group of lurkers behind the scenes, who never express opinions or voice their views on topics, yet complain to the moderators, are like those sitting in the audience watching a play, then complaining about it afterward.

Participate.

Also, audreyb you cannot obsess about posts from long ago that were somehow missed by Roger as he tried to clean up the board. That is just ridiculous. Those posts had died and were long forgotton, by all but you. Is that picture link from an active post, or simply a pointer you had saved from something that had angered you a year ago? Frankly, one of those posters is now dead, and has been since March. Bringing him up in your worst light possible does absolutely no good, for family, freinds, or relatives. That - is sickening to me.

Audrey, there are also certain internet bulletin board etiquettes that are followed on all the boards I frequent.

First, you do not provide links to a non-pg (R) board that requires membership and is clearly not a PG board from a PG board, which is what Pelican is. The BMWforums board was created by those that did want to move their more graphic topics and pictures off of Pelican. The two were not meant to be co-mingled.

Second, you do not copy quotations from that board and bring back over to a PG board. You are as bad as those you complain about, or worse.

[Moki]

Motoyoyo, you took the words right out my mouth, TWICE.

[JonyRR]

First of all, thanks as always, Wayne, for the use of bandwidth and drive space. We mo'sikkle riders tend to be a little more vocal and a bit rowdier than cage drivers. Whenever I'm around other BMW or Porsche cage drivers I have to keep it in the bottom of the ol' mental powerband as it seems the car folks are just wired different than us riders. Regardless, your house, your rules, your way, I agree 100%. I'm fixin' to drop 1.7K USD on a complete suspension upgrade for my E34 cage from y'all soon, BTW.
ditto motoyoyo, ckcarr, moki. what they said...

[Don Ro]

Thank you so much, Wayne, for this forum! Put up some BMW moto items for sale - I'll buy.
.
Actually, as I recall, JAS used his own money to fire up the bmwforums.net forum because he became discontented with Roger's inconsistent forum (OT) moderating.
.
Back on topic: What a quagmire we have here, eh?
Easily resolved, however, methinks.
Post up a Sticky with the basic forum ground rules regarding OT, thread hi-jacking, forum etiquette, chat room BS, soft porn photos, etc.
Sheese, minimally define the sandbox in which we are playing.
Many other forums I visit - tech and otherwise - have such a Sticky.
'Never understood why not here...there's been mucho outcry for that.
Dysfunctional families have whimsical, mood-specific rules and boundaries, so no one ever knows what's OK and what's not.
Truly crazy-making.

[Steve Carlton]

AudreyB, how is it as an un-registered user you received several e-mails from registered members about a thread with pictures you found offensive per your first post?

Some topics/pictures clearly don't belong on a commercial site. And not everything on this board is going to appeal to everybody. I get the impression the majority of active users here enjoy a little banter, moto-related and otherwise, if tasteful. I'd hate to see all the fun go out of this place because a few lurkers like yourself want nothing but to read (and not participate in) technical talk.

[5axis]

Just get over your shyness and come play in the OT. You really need to get to know the characters. It's all good fun and there are many very bright folks to borrow ideas from. Plus I can share silly bike stuff that does not belong on a tech forum.. like this dumb a$$ stunter

naked stunt rider goes down