wee bit o' tech assistance needed... - Page 2

JonyRR · 05-01-2006, 10:20 AM

and repoe, on your april-killya, I have some experience on my buddy's futura. it is, as you say, an eye-talian sikkle despite having an austrian engine.
here's what I've learned about aprillia FI.
FInd someone who is GOOD who can talk to the CPU. perhaps a bootleg copy of the austrailian tunreboy software. I've seen dayu-and-night differences in the before-and-after when the CPU is dialled in on the futura, a 10+ HP increase3 with increased fuel mileage.
You might ahve to travel to find that competent person on the east coast...try the guy that sold all us opur PCIII's at www.dynosolutions.com -he has it together, FI wise.
the smaller spark plug on a twinspark is the equivelant of an NGK D-series plug, I believe and a DP7EA or DP8EA should work...

JonyRR · 05-01-2006, 10:20 AM

that's 'TuneBoy'.....

repoe3 · 05-01-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonyRR
that's 'TuneBoy'.....

ahhhhhhhnnnnnnnt....wrong again mister jony. the futura was the first, and only for a while, of the aprilia family that had a programable ECU. it was not until the lates RSV and tuono that they too inheritted a programable ECU. the software or map on the bikes is known to be a leaned out EPA-certified bit of 1's and 0's and the dealer can switch to anther map, right out of the crate. but still, it had not solved many of starting issues.

repoe3

repoe3 · 05-01-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SCOTTinNJ
Actually, I can . . . but that comes with as many problems as benefits . . .

Either way, let us know if your problem is solved.

i could step away but chances of me coming back are slim to none. i will most certainly update the results as i think that may in fact be the issue at hand. thanks for the quick responses, too.

repoe3

JonyRR · 05-01-2006, 11:04 AM

I was told a tuneboy hack of the software will work across the spectrum as long as it's a sagem CPU...but then, WTFO, I don't own an aprillia. Good Luck with that thing
I HAVE been known to be wrong...once or twice.
You could always yard a couple of 44MM Mikuni flatslides on it

BTW, a friend of mine works for Sagem-Morpho as a C/java developer, pretty high up on the food chain there...I'll bet he could get some inside information if I ask real nice....

repoe3 · 05-01-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonyRR
I was told a tuneboy hack of the software will work across the spectrum as long as it's a sagem CPU...but then, WTFO, I don't own an aprillia. Good Luck with that thing
I HAVE been known to be wrong...once or twice.
You could always yard a couple of 44MM Mikuni flatslides on it
BTW, a friend of mine works for Sagem-Morpho as a C/java developer, pretty high up on the food chain there...I'll bet he could get some inside information if I ask real nice....

and that statement is correct...all of them :P

it was not until the newer versions did they cross-populate the family of bikes.

repoe3

repoe3 · 05-01-2006, 04:57 PM

alrighty then...

first off, the sheathing was not an issue. i turned and turned and turned and nothing, the sheathing didnt move. in fact i fiddled with everything to the point where the bike didnt run for ***** and idle was terrible. then i realized the left side was requiring a lot more turns on the brass screw to balance with the right. that was when i gave swartzy a call. i knew something was not right.

i then loosened the right throttle stop...which according to the workshop manual is a no-no. and i surely made things worse AND according to the workshop manual would require idle flow balance to be reset by the manufacturer...sure. but i managed to get it all back in line for the most part. the idle is ok, the hiccup/studder is still there at times. i can lieterally feel it sputter back through the right TB. i also redid the sync at 4k, but honestly, i think there is more to this.

for example, when i come to a stop, pulling in the clutch, the idle speed seems to drop below 1k rpm and almost stall, then picking up the idle speed again to level off.

kinda wondering if the cables are just shot and it is time for new ones.

but at this point i am at a complete loss. at speed, above 2500rpm, the bike is fine, runs great. so this is definitely an idle and just off idle issue.

repoe3

JonyRR · 05-01-2006, 05:01 PM

obvious:
EMP-induced reverse-polarity inductive reactance feedback overload. You need new paralever pivot transducers and a new coil oiler.

JonyRR · 05-01-2006, 05:02 PM

Or, a coupl-a well placed sabot APHE rounds from that there SPAS should settle it's hash once and for all

wswartzwel · 08:38 PM

Some things to check:
*Clean the throttle bodies, sounds like carbon buildup may be affecting plate closure.
*Also go back an recheck your valve clearances. It should not be that hard to sync throttle bodies something is amiss.
*Double check the little vacuum caps you put on it when you pulled the canister, to make sure one isn't split or missing.
Since the running problem is at low idle, this should be easy for you to find.
*Do a Volt test on the TPS, and roll the throttle on and off to make sure it is functioning OK.
*How long has it been since you rode the piss out of it??? It may just want some lovin...
*Ride your bike more, and tinker with it less!

repoe3 · 05-02-2006, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wswartzwel
Some things to check:
*Clean the throttle bodies, sounds like carbon buildup may be affecting plate closure.
*Also go back an recheck your valve clearances. It should not be that hard to sync throttle bodies something is amiss.
*Double check the little vacuum caps you put on it when you pulled the canister, to make sure one isn't split or missing.
Since the running problem is at low idle, this should be easy for you to find.
*Do a Volt test on the TPS, and roll the throttle on and off to make sure it is functioning OK.
*How long has it been since you rode the piss out of it??? It may just want some lovin...
*Ride your bike more, and tinker with it less!

thanks...you basically reiterated everything i was thinking. valves are spot on...i know that. i do need to ride it with some anger. also, how best woudl you recomment cleaning the TB's? remove the intake runner and spray with carb cleaner? what about that magically stuff you put a little in the oil and let it really cook the crap out? i do need to get some need nipple caps (for the bike, boys) the old ones are splitting, but they seem to seal alright.

jony, et al...i started her up and refused to use the fast idle, just for you

she was fine. like a diesel

she runs great, and idles fine with it sitting around 1400rpm...which she seems to prefer over the spec idle.

repoe3

wswartzwel · 05-02-2006, 06:12 AM

I use a soft non abrasive cloth and some mild solvent to clean the carbon from around the throttle plates. Some throttle bodies have a plastic coating that can be damaged if you are not careful. I am not sure if the R1100S' bodies are coated or not.

Flatbutt1 · 05-02-2006, 08:02 AM

Isn't there a cable junction box(Bowden?) that is a wear point for our bikes?

repoe3 · 05-02-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flatbutt
Isn't there a cable junction box(Bowden?) that is a wear point for our bikes?

yes, and some say 24k miles is near the cables and box's life, others say not so fast. and even in re-reading the link scott posted...one of the symptons described and then subsequently discussed, suggests replacement of the cables.

repoe3

Peter Parts · 05-02-2006, 08:25 AM

Sometimes helps to go back to basics. See if the butterflies are the same by using a wire or small drill bit as a feeler. For TBs, cleaning and minor leaks not likely to matter much.

repoe3 · 05-02-2006, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Parts
Sometimes helps to go back to basics. See if the butterflies are the same by using a wire or small drill bit as a feeler. For TBs, cleaning and minor leaks not likely to matter much.

where do stick the wire or drill bit to feel?

repoe3

Peter Parts · 05-02-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by repoe3
where do stick the wire or drill bit to feel?

repoe3

Under the opening of the butterfly at the bottom - that's where the rubber meets the road (well, for a TB, the top just as much). Might take a thin wire like 22 gauge solid "bell" wire. As I say, this is back-to-basics but sometimes things get spun around so much, you need to verify your starting point.

TBs are far simpler than carbs and no tiny passages to get clogged. Likewise, an open vacuum port is barely a ripple even for a well-balanced bike (these are pretty small ports).

On the other hand, the injectors do get clogged and need cleaning. Helped my bike by increasing flow a bit and spray pattern significantly. About $25 per injector. From the box, Bosch may not be well-matched (mine were OK, within 2% when I brought them in dirty and within 2% after cleaning).

repoe3 · 05-02-2006, 08:49 AM

so you took them in for a cleaning of some sort?

thought about putting some injector cleaner through the system as well. but i run good fuel most of the time.

now if i could figure out why she has never liked to ilde at 1100. she hunts from 900-1100 when i lower the idle speed. this has been the case since my 600 mile service. even chatted with the tech about it (yeah, thats right, i said tech...and that was the last time she saw the inside of a shop). and before anyone else says it...maybe thats my problem :P

i did find that the hiccup/stumble was less or even removed when i didnt try to balance at 4 or beyond, but more like 3500 rpm. as much as i have fiddled with things, i am leaning a lot more to resistance/friction/wear on the cables and sheathing.

repoe3

Highlander179 · 05-02-2006, 09:25 AM

Im getting that same stumble-at-idle-on-cool-mornings as you describe. When I dont use the fast idle lever, it doesn't happen that day. This morning I did and yup, it stumbled many times commuting when at idle. Sometimes it gets so bad I can't idle and constantly have to blip the throttle to keep it running. Weird.

Peter Parts · 05-02-2006, 09:28 AM

Yes, cables, sheathes, and one-into-two boxes get messed up, stretch, and behave badly and that may be where your problem lies. But being able to eyeball the butterfly gap will be a good start at diagnosis and will confirm the starting point for idle of the butterflies. Maybe then, the next basic check is confirming that the TBS is around .37 (important to be below .4 to avoid popping).

Vague idling and hunting, as you describe it, may be due to leanness, at least in carbs. The fault-tree search with EFI is a bit different in detail but the same in concept.

The injector guys are skeptical about the value of cleaning additives. But additives may be useful for removing water from the system anyway. Never tried it, but maybe flow can be tested with a bucket.

Never hurts to momentarily pull the 15 Amp ECU fuse to clear the memory and then re-do the two-twists.