Searching Sux (Zero=Zero)

sssss · 07-19-2006, 11:09 AM

I've been down in the archives trying to find "zero=zero" and other combinations of "zero" words in hopes of finding the TPS zeroing technique. I've found lots of references to it but no real cook book. Does anyone have it saved or remember a specific thread. TIA.

GotRoad? · 07-19-2006, 11:19 AM

maybe you were looking for this??

http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/zero528.shtml

sssss · 07-19-2006, 11:22 AM

Thanks Craig.

JonyRR · 07-19-2006, 11:49 AM

I recommend printing that procedure out and having it handy when you do this for the first time.
Also, I recommend pulling the intake boots and sealing them where the mate w/cylinderhead using yamabond #4..

Steve Carlton · 07-19-2006, 11:56 AM

Does this procedure help with getting a better idle? My idle has dropped down to 950 and it's a little crusty, causing the transmission to rattle. After riding it for a long time, the idle will sometimes come up to 1,100 and be good. I asked the dealer if they could do the "0=0" and they said you never need to do it on this bike. They checked the TPS voltage, and it was a little off, and checked the throttle body synch, which was good. They also blew out the bleed screws, which sometimes get gunked up.

Bob in Tucson · 07-19-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Carlton
My idle has dropped down to 950 ... After riding it for a long time, the idle will sometimes come up to 1,100 and be good.

Huh, mine has started to do the same... Any ideas gurus?

Dr. Curve · 07-19-2006, 12:12 PM

The bottom line. Will your bike idle the same RPM while running on either single cylinder? Zero To Zero helps get everything equal. I remember long conversations with Rob Lentini when he would call about the tuning we had done back in the early ninetys when the oilheads came out.

BMW does not like this procedure because it sometimes requires that you change the primary butterfly setting.

Steve. Ground the plug (s) on one cylinder, disconnect the injector on that side and then crank the bike. Note idle speed. Reconnect the plug and injector and crank on both cylinders. Idle for a moment. Now go to the other cylinder. Ground it's plug and disconnect it's injector. Now crank on that one cylinder and note it's idle speed. Most likely they will not match. The air bypass screw hides this in most cases.........but if you really want the bike to pull well right off idle and to idle smooth as silk..........then the bike must have even cylinder filling side to side. If you ever do a proper 0 to 0 you can run your bike with both airscrews shut tight if you wish..........thats how even it should be.

Lots has been written about this. I adjusted the primary butterfly openings on my S early on in it's life and have never looked back. Still smooth and quick.

roger albert · 07-19-2006, 12:14 PM

Well said. Definitely the ticket.

JonyRR · 07-19-2006, 12:29 PM

well, I learn something almost every day.
Dr. C, I'll try that as an experiment.
I was under the impression both TB butterflies should be completely closed and the air bypass screws controlled the idle completely, ala auto-motive EFI.

One thing I can recommend as I stated above, check the sealing of the TB intake boots to the cylinderhead. There was evidence of leakage on all 3 oilheads I've touched wrench to since bringing mine home in 10/2000.

sssss · 07-19-2006, 12:51 PM

Jim, is there no danger to the electronics when grounding out one plug? That sounds similar to the old pre-electronic Airhead carb synching.

repoe3 · 07-19-2006, 01:17 PM

mine was doing that for a while. you can adjust the brass screws a bit to help....buuuuuut...the PCIII cleaned it up COMPLETELY. no more hunting. have a theory that this ethanol fuel is causing grief on the fuel system and such. O2 sensors are not able to do their job...but i aint no expert. that said, mine always hunted after the laser chip was installed, but it was smoother until i saw the "10% ethanol' stickers at the pump.

repoe3

Flatbutt1 · 07-19-2006, 05:37 PM

I'm guessing the 10% EtOH results in a 10% drop in octane as well? If so won't that impact the burn which in turn is reflected in the idle?

Moybin · 07-19-2006, 06:54 PM

Flatty, interesting statement. I saw information claiming that pure ethanol has an octane value of 110. I don't understand how diluting 89 octane gasoline 10-to-1 with something at octane 110 could result in lower octane overall. Doesn't add up no matter how I try to do the math.

I do know that here in the Corn Belt GM and Ford are pushing E-85 capable pickup trucks at the farmers like the Second Coming. Other parts of the Country don't even know what E-85 is, and I haven't seen a station selling the stuff yet. Like 20 of them in the entire state of Iowa.

I run my S on 10% gasohol rated at 89 octane all the time. Get about 38-39 mpg, but the bike has 83K miles on it, too. Just finally broken in. I've got the idle set a little high, probably need to pull the injector venturis off the bike and clean with carburetor solvent. But still, it burns as clean as anything else, and no detonation. I'd burn higher octane if I could get it, but I can't.

repoe3 · 07-20-2006, 02:35 AM

another issue...ethanol doesnt allow all the sediment and crap to settle, it keeps it in suspension and thusly clogs fuel filters faster. and you know how things get when stuff gets clogged.

its octane value is not the only factor in how things run. the O2 sensor and such struggle to keep good AF readings and that affects its running.

repoe3

roger albert · 07-20-2006, 07:20 AM

> Jim, is there no danger to the electronics when grounding out one plug?

Of course not. When they're screwed into the head, how is that different than being held on the head. The danger would be the converse. Letting them dangle and NOT be in contact.

No, ethanol, as blended, doesn't lower octane. All things being equal, it would raise it. But they're not equal. The stuff is blended, by design, to end up with the same regular stated octanes.

The only thing ethanol keeps in suspension is moisture. That is a good thing, as it doesn't accumulate and cause localized corrosion. It doesn't plug up a filter any faster either. On the contrary.

Jim's input was good (as was the TB sealing) The rest of all that speculation was just bunk.

You guys worry too much.
Beemer dudes -- Hmmph

repoe3 · 07-20-2006, 07:24 AM

i notice a clear difference when i fill up at a non-blended station.

repoe3

Dale Flowers · 07-20-2006, 07:50 AM

Etanol does raise octane but when burned does not release the same level of energy as gas does and so mpg drops. Octane rating prevents knock but has nothing to do with energy/power.

roger albert · 07-20-2006, 08:18 AM

Quite true. Thus, you could see a dropoff, such as Repoe claims.
But note that the difference in power is a few percent only (first,it's only a 10% blend, and 2nd, it's not like that 10% doesn't have nearly the same specific energy, meaning the real dropoff is <2%)

The placebo effect is larger than the physics based one.

repoe3 · 07-20-2006, 08:38 AM

talking idle, non-smooth running down low, and a bit of MPG...but a difference noticed nonetheless.

repoe3

Moybin · 07-20-2006, 11:00 AM

repoe3

The difference you notice could actually be because the gasoline in your area is blended differently than the gas in my area, or other's areas. No two regions of the USA get exactly the same blends. Kalifornia gets it's own blend due to the State's regulations on air quality. Oklahoma gets something different. I don't know where the lines are drawn for each blend, or if the lines are static or always in flux. Point is, the krappy gas I have to put up with might not show any noticable difference while the different krappy gas you get could.

At this point it's not fair to aim a finger at ethanol and claim it is the source of all evil. It might be, it might be something else. Personally, I'd be happy if everything ran on ethanol 100% and the Arabs got to buy lettuce from us $100 a head until we got all our gas money back!