R1150 Input spline lube in 1 hour????!

[GS ADDICT]

Its been a while since I was here as the Adventure Rider site is more GS oriented but I felt I had to share this with all.

Being due for another spline lube in 4000km and not wanting to rip the bike apart before next winter I went down to the shop this am and removed the starter to see if there could possibly be an easier way.
A trip to our local druggist (who is a hot rod nut ) and some explaining I left with an handfull of syringes and needles.
Some time on the lathe and bench followed and the pictures say the rest.
YES, it is possible to fiddle the needle assembly into the input shaft spline trough. I put the bike in 6th, clamped the clutch lever in and marked the starting point on the clutch hub with a dot of paint. The tool tip takes a little patience to work down the spline and a constant pressure on the syringe slowly releases the Starburegs. I stopped squeezing once I saw the grease coming back out of the spline. The length of the needle is just over .250" so I figure if the contact surface is approx. .750" I wouldn't be putting too much. Centrifugal force should do the distributing. It took no time at all and the job was done, starter back in and a quick road test. Upon return I removed the starter again and looked for evidence of excess grease slinging around - NONE! I estimate I injected .5 ml to do the the job.
The job is so easy to do I think I will do every 20000 km or one a year as a PM.
I welcome everyones opinions on this idea including whether I should even take the bike apart this winter.


FYI the pictures are as follows
1) tool in use
2) tool tip shown on old clutch and input shaft for clarity
3) tool
4) grease that was extruded from the tip (very fine bead) easy to meter out. Needle O.D. is .027"
Attached Images

[celticus]

Good job. Nice pics. Good explanation.
Mark

[Bob Hancock]

This looks like a great idea. The local druggist had a bent tipped needle? The process wouldn't handle the cleaning part but would sure provide fresh lubricant. Wonder how the build-up of lube affect things after you've done this several times....where does it go?
Just wondering out loud.....great idea with the starter removal to at least check part of the splines.
I'm not familiar with the term "Starburegs". This is the recommended grease?

[on2wheels52]

Looks like a great idea, what did you do with the lathe, I assume you worked on the needle. How did you bend without kinking?
Jim

[AndrewA]

Nice!

[roger albert]

Yes, how the needle was handled and and what the lathe was used for would both be very nice to know. Great idea, and thanks for sh aring.

Bob, yes, starburegs is the lube. Not sure if that's still the name, but it's still the same red bmw lube.

And yes, buildup could be an issue over time, but surely this could be done at least every other time (maybe every third) drastically cutting the effort. Or just whenever the rear main seals fails and it has to be pulled apart anyway

And no, I don't think I'd bother to disassemble. Looked pretty clean in the pix, and you'e lubed it, so enjoy the free time.

Bob, will you be making these for us? At least the lathework?

[Bob Hancock]

[i].Bob, will you be making these for us? At least the lathework? [/B]

Roger, I can't tell what lathe work was done. The bend in the needle would be the hard part I guess. Was hoping he was just able to buy it.

Doing some other projects for folks for the R12 series. Making my own to see if it works then making a few others. 19th century technology is slow...wish I had CNC. I got an idea for changing the rear wheel from Ivan Messina that I did one of but it took me 4 hours and he can get them done CNC in 10 minutes, so no production work planned. WORK! Did I like...say....WORK?

[EZ-RIDER]

Hey BoB PM with your phone #

[GS ADDICT]

Answers.......
Starburegs is the BMW grease
Needle easily bent over a 1/8" dia rod (blunt the end first for safety)
Lathework was the threaded brass adaptor from the syringe to the brass tube
Very easy to clean up just pump solvent thru. Syringe is cheaply replaced at less than 1$
Syringe & needle is a 'Precisionglide' 1ml 27G 1/2

[Peter Parts]

Great concepts. Thanks a lot.

Is it necessary (or wise) to unhitch the electric cable from the battery first or just work carefully with the cable at the starter motor end?

With the Airheads, people would attach a toothbrush to a stick of wood but the tranny had to be backed off enough to get the toothbrush in. A brush is a somewhat better kind of applicator because it applies the grease to the hills and valleys.

Having said that, while you need to get the grease reasonably distributed to each spline and groove but not perfectly distributed because the motion of the clutch disk spreads the grease some. And even if one spline goes dry, the greased ones will shoulder the load until they are dry and start to wear.

Design of the clutch, flywheel, etc, on the Airheads made the clutch pretty hard to get grease on from slightly over-greasing the splines. Same on R1100S?

At the risk of a flame war, is Honda Moly still the most revered grease?

[roger albert]

> At the risk of a flame war, is Honda Moly still the most revered grease?

It never was. Dries out too much.

[GS ADDICT]

Originally posted by Peter Parts
Great concepts. Thanks a lot.

Is it necessary (or wise) to unhitch the electric cable from the battery first or just work carefully with the cable at the starter motor end?

With the Airheads, people would attach a toothbrush to a stick of wood but the tranny had to be backed off enough to get the toothbrush in. A brush is a somewhat better kind of applicator because it applies the grease to the hills and valleys.

Having said that, while you need to get the grease reasonably distributed to each spline and groove but not perfectly distributed because the motion of the clutch disk spreads the grease some. And even if one spline goes dry, the greased ones will shoulder the load until they are dry and start to wear.

Design of the clutch, flywheel, etc, on the Airheads made the clutch pretty hard to get grease on from slightly over-greasing the splines. Same on R1100S?

At the risk of a flame war, is Honda Moly still the most revered grease?

Your call as to disconnecting the battery, I slide a rubber hose stub over the lug and tape over, but then I am used to working on energized equipment for a living. As far as your other comments go the points are well noted but as far as the grease getting distributed I'm banking on the centrifugal force and accel/decel to do that. After all it does not take much grease to do the job as it is Moly

[R111S]

Thanks for the excellent idea and posting your text and pics GS ADDICT...I'll be attempting this on my R1100S very soon. I'll be sure to post my results as well.

I always used VW CV-Joint Grease (Moly) on my Airheads Clutch Splines...I plan to use the same on my R1100S.

[ploz58]

gday folks,
If you purchase a "drawing up needle" it has a blunt end, and a larger bore. they are used for "drawing up drugs", ( im medically trained)

a newbie question, how often should this splines be lubed?

thanks in advance

Phil, Australia

[R111S]

Hi ploz58,

I don't have my Manual handy right now but I'm planning on doing my first lube at 40K Miles later next week. I'll post my findings afterwards.

Others here have done it sooner and later. If you abuse your clutch you may want to do it sooner than later.

[R1100S2000]

Bump!

I would like to here some more feedback on this process. My bike now has 57k miles and I don't think the input splines have ever been lubed. I would like to do the same process on my k75s if possible.

[GS ADDICT]

Never tried it on a K bike.

[nathanmargolis]

I know spline lube is part of maintenance on older BMWs (pre 80s but not exact) but not mentioned as required in my '02 RT and '04 S bikes.

Do most of my maintenance, but will take the bikes in from time to time. No service manager has ever ask me about greasing the spline.

Do like the needles, but is this really necessary or recommended?

Thank you,
Nathan

[GS ADDICT]

Just do a subject search on ADV Riders or the BMWMOA
subject line splineshaft failure, input shaft failure, spline lube.
You will find lots on the subject, BMW does not acknowledge the problem........
if they did they would be on the hook for all the repairs.