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The engine of the future.....

http://www.celsias.com/blog/2007/06/12/myt-the-internal-combustion-engine-gets-an-overhaul/

Old 06-29-2007, 06:07 AM
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....probably going to be knocked down by the big ones just like the Stelzer Motor was.... the Oil industry can not be to happy about that... and the general public is not intelligent enough to get that.

Or it's just simply to much effort to fight for an engines like that... after all, it's more convenient to pay the $3+ at the pump and then go home and watch American Idol...
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:10 AM
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Personally, I think the oil industry would want more fuel efficient cars. At our current rate of consumption, we run out of proven oil reserves in about 60 years. I'm sure the industry does not want to shut down in 60 years, which means get MORE usage out of existing reserves. They'll make money, for sure, but it will be through price, not quantity.
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:58 PM
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John, like with everything else, it seems the attitude of "who cares about the next generation, it's ME ME ME" seems to prevail here...
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Old 06-29-2007, 03:05 PM
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Unfortunately, I think you're right in terms of having the oil industry (or worse yet, the government) come up with a comprehensive plan to "save us." It will be up to the consumers to start getting smarter about fuel usage, but it won't really kick in until gas prices go higher. I do understand, though, that SUV sales are in the tank, which is a start.

I can't wait for the turbo-diesels to arrive in the US -- I'll be in line for one of those. I think the "experts" that say the US consumers won't buy diesel are dead wrong. They just need to be offered a good product, like in Europe. Actually, that is a good example of the industry (auto) has not done a good job. Based on consumer surveys, they think consumers won't buy diesel in the US, even though diesel is a large percentage of sales in Europe. Instead of taking the lead and taking a chance, they all take the safe (and wrong) route. You would think companies like MB, BMW, Audi, etc. would have more insight and would have brought these products in a long time ago. Actually, I think I know the answer to that too. Until now, diesels couldn't pass CA emissions, but with the new low-sulfur diesel that's just (or about to be) out, they will.
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Old 06-29-2007, 03:20 PM
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...John, Europe has the MOST CRITICAL smog tolerances to fulfill for ANY automaker... and they have very functional Diesel-Catalytic Converters in place... these things far surpass the EURO 4 Requirements... they'd laugh about CA requirements. It's ALL in place... just not here.

As for Dielsel engines and Turbo diesel Engines... Love them... the newer generations are efficient, responsive and powerful (Just look who won the 24 hours of Le Mans last week and with what kind of engine!!!... and then look what place the first Gas engine came in...)

They leave nothing to be desired ... well, except the smell when you work on them... but other than that... My dream still is a Diesel Motorcycle... RoLoo has posted a link a while ago to a Dutch Manufacturer who makes High Performance Diesel bikes... it's just that the price tag of 17,000.00 Euros or so scared me a little...

I'd gladly pay around 10K or so... but not more...

I have fallen in love with Diesel engine a long time ago when I got my first Mercedes BEnz 200/8... man that thing would just run and run and run... then came a Peugot 205 Diesel... 465000 Kilometer with tht little 1.7l diesel engine and usually around 45 mpg when driving no faster than 75 MPH... that was great!

But, as you have seen, the Oil Companies have clearly seen the value of this (formerly worthless) by-Product of the refining process... and they are sticking it to the Diesel consumers as well... SIGH!
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Old 06-29-2007, 04:01 PM
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Oil companies are reinventing themselves as 'Energy companies'. F'rinstance, BP (which was British Petroleum) is now promoting itself as 'Beyond Petroleum'. If there was a chance that we could run our engines on Doritos, they would be cornering the corn chips market for the next generation of drivers.
There is a lot of oil left in the ground and there is a lot of money to be made digging it out and selling it, so the status quo will remain in place, at least until the end of this US administration. In any other business, you would think that an American inventor with a new concept would have American companies beating his door down to try to do a deal. Too bad GM and Ford are in the money business, and not in the ideas business.
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Old 06-29-2007, 04:34 PM
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Can anyone explain how it works? All the vid had was one long commercial with a wonderful moving model of what we all know too well and a confusing drawing of this engine. Could be snake oil for all I know.
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Old 06-29-2007, 04:43 PM
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It's another "chasing piston" engine. This is not the first incarnation of this type. If I don't miss my guess it will have seal problems ala the Wankel engines.

The amount of R&D that has gone into the "standard" internal combustion engine is going to be hard to surpass even with intense computer simulation. A large part of the total materials development of the last century was dedicated to internal combustion improvements.

IMHO we are seeing the beginning of a transition from "classic" fossil fuel to organic-sourced fuels.

Short-term: a transition to 100% alcohol.

Long-term: fuel cells coupled with electric motors and some sort of regenerative braking system to recoop what is now thrown away without thinking.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:06 PM
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THIS IS MY KILOPOST! WHOHOO....

Bob, I am not sure whether I would disclose the principles of the motor internals at any stage unless they are fully protected and even then, I'd be very careful.

These guys seem to look for interested partners... not much to gain by prematurely disclosing the functional principles of that motor... IMHO.


Could be Vapor Ware... but then again, that seems to be squarely in the hands of MicroSoft
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:10 PM
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Back to the original post before all the "big oil" rantings, the MYT engine is pure snake oil, at least as it is presented here. They seem to have no issue telling people with a straight face that they've repealed the laws of physics and the inherent theoretical limits of the carnot heat cycle.

Not quite as bad as the video of the hydrogen powered car that runs on electrolysis using current from the car battery (which gets recharged from the alternator of course), but close.

- Mark
Old 06-29-2007, 05:25 PM
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The guy looks and sounds like a hippy. never trust a hippy, especially if he's trying to sell you something.
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Old 06-30-2007, 04:12 AM
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I think that's the first thing Auntie-Chris has written that I agree with 100%.

You want hippies? Go to Eugene, Oregon. Full crop, every year at what used to be the county fair. They still have communes up in the foothills. Booby traps on the pot fields, the works.
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Old 06-30-2007, 06:31 AM
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Frankly, going along with a comment like that belittles you, not to mention the act of publicly condemning a whole group of people (any people) with slanderous misinformation. If you want to bash in this way, go to the OT forum. Please.
Old 06-30-2007, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by markjenn
They seem to have no issue telling people with a straight face that they've repealed the laws of physics and the inherent theoretical limits of the carnot heat cycle.
That's not where the piston engine loses out anyway. It's that constant loss to inertia and friction that beats the piston engine when compared to rotary engines.


Can't say if MYT is vapourware or not, but after many heresay and rumors about all sorts of highly efficient engines that got misteriously lost, this is the first time i actually see someone presenting it out in the open, so maybe that's a good sign.


Still, nothing gets close to the efficiency of an electric motor, but that's another story.
Old 06-30-2007, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fenring
That's not where the piston engine loses out anyway. It's that constant loss to inertia and friction that beats the piston engine when compared to rotary engines.

Can't say if MYT is vapourware or not, but after many heresay and rumors about all sorts of highly efficient engines that got misteriously lost, this is the first time i actually see someone presenting it out in the open, so maybe that's a good sign.

Still, nothing gets close to the efficiency of an electric motor, but that's another story.
All IC engines lose most of their energy to the heat cycle involved. I can't remember the exact numbers, but with typical combustion and heat sink temperatures, the absolutely theoretical efficiency (no losses whatsoever) of an IC engine OF ANY TYPE is around 30%. Friction may cost you a couple percent on top of this, but is very small in comparison. So whenever you see anyone talking about truly dramatic changes in fuel efficiency for a new engine, your bull**** meter should immediately peg.

IC engines that double fuel efficiency get "lost" just about as often as the 150-mpg carburetors that Detroit was keeping off the market. And if this is the first you've seen of this sort of thing you need to get out more - both YouTube and the web are littered with "new technology engines" are are going to revolutionize the industry - there's an entire Nigerian-style industry revolving around bilking investors in such ventures.

Electric motors are highly efficient but that's because they are converting electrical energy to work rather than heat energy to work. The process that generates the electricity, if it uses a heat cycle, has the same problems with low theoretical efficiency. The most efficent coal-fired and gas-fired powerplants can do quite a bit better than IC engines in cars because they run at higher temperatures and there are economies of scale, but efficiencies are still in the 35-40% range.

- Mark

Last edited by markjenn; 06-30-2007 at 10:50 AM..
Old 06-30-2007, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by signit98
THIS IS MY KILOPOST! WHOHOO....

Bob, I am not sure whether I would disclose the principles of the motor internals at any stage unless they are fully protected and even then, I'd be very careful.

These guys seem to look for interested partners... not much to gain by prematurely disclosing the functional principles of that motor... IMHO.


Could be Vapor Ware... but then again, that seems to be squarely in the hands of MicroSoft
I just don't see it that way. Whenever someone tells me at great length how wonderful their product is, and then fails to mention any...ANY.... of how it works, I become suspicious of snake oil. Just recently I got my e-version of Winding Road where-in they go into great detail about various ways to time and operate valves. Very interesting and pretty specific, without a sales pitch. Compare that to this engine that runs on compressed air....whatta crock. But then what do I know?
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Old 06-30-2007, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by markjenn
the absolutely theoretical efficiency (no losses whatsoever) of an IC engine OF ANY TYPE is around 30%.

The most efficent coal-fired and gas-fired powerplants can do quite a bit better than IC engines in cars because they run at higher temperatures and there are economies of scale, but efficiencies are still in the 35-40% range.
Interesting - love those kind of facts (where's Dixie Lee Ray?). I have always been a little skeptical of the green car "statistics" because the electrical generation process was left out of the equation. But based on those numbers I guess we're gaining 5 to 10 % efficiency, which is very significant as a percentage improvement over 30% (up to 1/3 better). But one probably needs to account for the power needed to manufacture the batteries and transmission loses from the power plant to your home, etc., as well.
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Old 06-30-2007, 02:58 PM
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If someone could build a resepctable regenerative braking system we could recoop 50-70% of the energy!

I think if the adiabatic IC engine could ever be developed it might pull 50% thermal efficiency. This is an engine that has NO cooling. It's actually insulated and run as absolutely hot as possible. The efficiency comes from the huge difference in combustion temperature and the operating environment. So far these engines challenge materials science a little too much.
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Old 06-30-2007, 03:13 PM
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To John Lyon's concerns about the govm't getting into this: the number of small startup companies developing bio-diesel is unknown, but looking at the activity in Iowa and Illinois what's going to happen is this: private enterprise and investors are going to create a ground-swell of new production so much faster than Congress can keep up that by the time they stick their Luddite fingers into the pie they won't know where to start.

Bio-diesel by its very source is "low sulfur". I've talked to a few truckers already running it and they say it's cleaner, the engines run better and cleaner, longer runs between major overhauls, all those pie-in-the-sky things.

Personally my next cage will most likely be a diesel. In three or four years I expect all the major manufacturers to be building small (less than 2 liter) 3 and 4 cylinder diesel powerplants.

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Old 06-30-2007, 03:18 PM
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