Troubleshooting help 04 R1100SA Died/No start

jackbunce · 09-05-2007, 08:27 AM

I was about 460 miles on my way to the 4Winds rally along US 6 in the wilds of northern PA when my 04 R1100SA stumbled a couple of times and died. When I tried to restart, it wouldn't, and I noticed that the fuel pump did not do its initial run when the key was turned on. Pull plug & check for spark -- there is spark. The bike rode back to CT in my son's pickup.

We screwed around with it, swapping the horn & pump relay (horn worked) and checking the voltage to the pump connector. We would get voltage but no pump. Then when I applied 12v directly to the pump side of the connector I got a click but no other pump sound. Pulled the pump, applied the voltage to the pump and I got a face full of gasoline.

Replaced the fuel filter (I was there) and put the pump back in. decided to replace the pump; ordered and received the wrong pump from BeemerBoneYard, sent it back, and ordered another from Chicago BMW (still waiting) Cleaned and lubed the pump connector and the motronic connector. Pump now runs when key turned on. Hmmm!

OK, install the CQ Lite low beam HID while the bike is apart, put everything back together and bike starts and runs for about 24 hours.

Now it won't start. Pulled plug - have spark. Pulled injector on left side -- a very very small quantity of gasoline comes out when I crank bike so maybe I have fuel.

Anybody have any suggestions or thoughts?

I know I should probably check fuel pressure and perhaps voltage to injectors but have never done that before. Need to buy proper gauge, hose clamps, etc.

squall_line · 09-05-2007, 03:02 PM

A quick lesson I learned from the first half of Z&tAoMM: Is there gas in the tank?

You also mentioned that you swapped the relays from horn and pump. Have you cheked the fuses? Battery voltage okay? Alternator belt in place and putting out 13-14V? No chafed wiring?

How much did you ride it in the 24 hours between it last running and you saying that there was no pump sound?

Then again, it could just be that the pump is dead/dying, but until the new pump arrives from Chicago BMW in 2-3 months, you won't be able to reliably test that theory.

George_in_KG · 09-05-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackbunce

...We screwed around with it, swapping the horn & pump relay (horn worked) and checking the voltage to the pump connector. We would get voltage but no pump. Then when I applied 12v directly to the pump side of the connector I got a click but no other pump sound. Pulled the pump, applied the voltage to the pump and I got a face full of gasoline.

Replaced the fuel filter (I was there) and put the pump back in. decided to replace the pump; ordered and received the wrong pump from BeemerBoneYard, sent it back, and ordered another from Chicago BMW (still waiting) Cleaned and lubed the pump connector and the motronic connector. Pump now runs when key turned on. Hmmm!

OK, install the CQ Lite low beam HID while the bike is apart, put everything back together and bike starts and runs for about 24 hours.
....

Is this with the original pump or the new one? Sounds like an intermittent pump motor so far.

JonyRR · 09-05-2007, 03:59 PM

that pump also powers late model ford escorts as well, if memory serves....
it's just a generic in-tank pump......

jackbunce · 09-05-2007, 05:40 PM

[QUOTE=squall_line;3463343... Is there gas in the tank?
...Have you cheked the fuses?
... Battery voltage okay?
...Alternator belt in place and putting out 13-14V?
...No chafed wiring?

How much did you ride it in the 24 hours between it last running and you saying that there was no pump sound?

Then again, it could just be that the pump is dead/dying, but until the new pump arrives from Chicago BMW in 2-3 months, you won't be able to reliably test that theory.[/QUOTE]

The tank is just about full -- just topped it off
Fuses are ok -- the pump runs when the key is turned on.
Battery voltage is good -- topped it off with the charger
Haven't checked the alternator belt lately but when it last ran it showed 13.4 v
Chafed wiring -- checked for that previously and wrapped the areas which even looked the least bit worn on the armor. The insulation looked good.

The pump stopped working in PA then after removal and reinstallation it ran.

The total riding time after the reinstall of the pump was probably an hour.

The pump runs now when the key is turned on as it should. Not certain yet if it starts to run again when the engine turns over. Gotta check that.

So far it has been 9 working days since I ordered the new pump. CBMW says usual ship is 7 to 10 working days. So I will contact them on Friday. Note: they haven't charged my credit card yet.

jackbunce · 09-05-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George_in_KG

Is this with the original pump or the new one? Sounds like an intermittent pump motor so far.

It is with the original pump.

The pump does run when the key is first turned on -- it didn't do that when it failed in PA. As soon as we got it to run and reassembled it the bike started right up.

My understanding is that when you turn the key on the motronic is supposed to supply ground to the pump motor for a few seconds to allow the fuel system to pressurize and then the pump stops.

Once you start cranking, you get an output from the HES into the motronic which causes the pump to get its ground again and start running and a separate motronic output to go to the coils and probably the injectors too. Since I have spark that means the HES is probably OK and I should have fuel pressure.

At least that's my theory.

Hoots · 09-05-2007, 05:49 PM

Intermittent open in the kick stand switch?

jackbunce · 09-05-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonyRR

that pump also powers late model ford escorts as well, if memory serves....
it's just a generic in-tank pump......

There are some instructions floating around on using a couple of automotive OEM pumps instead of the BMW pump. Basically, you cut your old pump apart, rip the guts out, cut some foam, wrap the OEM pump in the foam and then stuff it inside the old gutted pump case. Almost any 3 Bar pump would probably work if you can find a way to mount it and get it into the tank.

I am willing to wait for the BMW pump. I just don't know anything about pump failure modes to even know if it is possible for the pump motor to run but the pump to not pump to its rated flow or pressure.

Maybe that's the question?

Who else has had a pump failure? What were the symptoms?

John Lyon · 09-05-2007, 06:09 PM

If Sergio was here, he'd say check the wires near the ignition switch.

jackbunce · 09-05-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoots

Intermittent open in the kick stand switch?

That's a possibility. I did test the switch the way the manual says to do it: "Place the motorcycle on the auxiliary stand; select a gearand switch on the ignition; slowly extend the side stand and watch the neutral indicator light; as the stand is extended, the neutral indicator light must come on briefly."

The neutral light never comes on. What does happen is that there is a click from up near the motronic as the stand is just about fully extended. If the stand is retracted then the pump runs momentarily just as if you turned the key on.

Has anyone ever done this and seen the neutral light come on momentarily?

jackbunce · 09-05-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Lyon

If Sergio was here, he'd say check the wires near the ignition switch.

Took a look but didn't disassemble the switch. I need to trace out the wiring on the bike and see if I can find some convenient places to jumper out the switches and wires to and from them -- the easy way to eliminate them as problems.

My thinking is to pull the pump relay and just jumper directly across the main contacts, i.e., pin 30 to pin 87. Then the pump will just run all the time.

tomn · 09-05-2007, 06:52 PM

Installing a jumper for the pump might work, that's how I ran my VW, add a switch first.
Have you tried checking injector output while cranking?
Put your cigar out first.

jackbunce · 09-05-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomn

Installing a jumper for the pump might work, that's how I ran my VW, add a switch first.
Have you tried checking injector output while cranking?
Put your cigar out first.

For me it was an Alfa first and then a Saab.

I did pull the left side injector and looked at the output while cranking: it was a very, very small volume. Never looked before so I can't judge if it was normal.

I expected more but my only experience is with automobile carbs back in the day (50s & 60s) and then a few 2 strokes in the 70s and 80s.