R1100S stock motor/exhaust/intake performance maximization?

[DavidSoine]

Over the years on this board we have seen many reports of the wide variability in engine performance of stock R1100S bikes.

What are the steps that those with totally stock units (stock engine/intake/exhaust) should do to ensure that they are getting maximum performance?

best,

Dave
99 R11S

[SergioK]

If it's totally stock, then just make sure you follow the service intervals and you should have max performance from the stock setup. A good dosage of the standard 'German tune-up' is always recommended as well.

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by DavidSoine

Over the years on this board we have seen many reports of the wide variability in engine performance of stock R1100S bikes....

Guess, I have to disagree with the initial premise. I've top-ended perhaps six or seven different stock R1100S bikes at one time or another (mostly on Euro rentals), and they all ran about the same top end: 135-140 indicated all loaded up with bags. Which is what mine does too, even at 45K miles. Most consistent stock runner I've ever owned.

So my answer would be to keep up with the standard maintenance, including valve checks at 6K and a fresh air filter and plugs at 12K, and you're doing everything you can and should to keep it running well.

- Mark

[DavidSoine]

Now we see two instances of cam timing retarded - one 4, the other 10 to 11degrees(!) - reported in another thread.

Is this factory variability or measurement error? Should I check the cam timing on my bike???

best,

Dave
99 R11S

[DavidSoine]

Looks like I missed this thread last year. Answers a lot of questions.

cam timing

Is there something similar for ignition timing? With what I am seeing for cam timing from the factory...won't there be the same problems for ignition timing?

Not getting much response on this thread - I guess we have mostly "bolt-on" specialists nowadays.

best,

Dave
99 R11S

[AntonLargiader]

Originally Posted by DavidSoine

Is there something similar for ignition timing? With what I am seeing for cam timing from the factory...won't there be the same problems for ignition timing?

Ignition timing is set with slots in the timing plate, so the adjustability is already there from the factory. Easy to change (for the Motronic bikes only).

[DavidSoine]

Anton do you know how that plate is set at the factory...or how it is supposed to be set? CAN the system be set accurately in reference to the actual crank location with the dealer (or other) tools?

I don't mean "in a range", I mean accurately.

Clearly there is a "range" for the cam timing for which the bike will run. Same thing for the ignition timing...in fact the "range" is probably pretty wide. The "range" could be much wider than what the engineers have specified. This is great if you are the bike manufacturing plant...but not so good for us, because I guarantee that if the bike runs the plant will ship it!

best,

Dave
99 R11S

[phoenixtexoma]

David: There are many things you can do to pep up your S, but it can get expensive in a real hurry. I posted some stuff about cam timing because I installed Lennie's 9-degree advance sprockets and the change was dramatic. JonyRR, however, suggested that I measure my cam timing before getting too crazy. If I'm not mistaken, the ignition advance plate will give you 3 degrees more at initial advance. Lennie has done some great work with S bikes at Boxer Performance, and Bernhard at BBPower in Germany is glad to answer questions. I'm in the process of buying a set of cams and buckets from him, and their S eprom when the budget allows. San Jose and Santa Cruz BMW are also very helpful.

To me, part of the fun of these bikes is playing with them. Some guys say to just leave 'em alone and ride, but I enjoy playing with my S almost as riding it. Follow your heart and enjoy the bike in the way that makes you happiest.

[Guest24]

I'm wondering if I can get a consensus that before upping the grunt you should get a suspension system that can put it to use.

[boxercup]

Greetings Dave,

First step on a 99 is SS brake lines & Suspension.

Stock lines and Suspension will Be in the S*cks Dept... (99 Vintage)!

Then add the power stuff

[markjenn]

You guys seem to have a different definition of "totally stock" than I do.

- Mark

[JonyRR]

HEY!!!

I left my GRIPS stock...does THAT count??

[DavidSoine]

Originally Posted by markjenn

You guys seem to have a different definition of "totally stock" than I do.

- Mark

The funny thing is that apparently to get the STOCK cam timing we were supposed to have from the factory, we will need a set of BOLT ON aftermarket adjustable cam sprockets!

I just checked my "Service and Technical Information" booklet again: Top speed is listed as 140 mph. My bike has never been close. What needs to be fixed to get it to run like it was _meant_ to by the engineers?

best,

Dave
99 R11S <= Fox shocks and speiglers already installed.

[Boybiker3]

Originally Posted by AntonLargiader

Ignition timing is set with slots in the timing plate, so the adjustability is already there from the factory. Easy to change (for the Motronic bikes only).

Anton -

Can you attach a timing light (or an induction-trigger timing light) and see what you are doing dynamically (not statically)? Where do you attach or how do the dyno operators do it?

My 1100S has only "S" and "OT" but no "Z" or "F" that I can see - how to see the "full advance" and how to make the ECU give you full advance?

How do you keep the ECU from fiddling with the timing while you are eyeballing the strobe lines?

[AntonLargiader]

David: the timing is supposed to be set at the factory (and at dealerships) so that one of the Hall sensors trips exactly at OT. From what I've seen, they are set pretty well. It's easy to get a rough check on it (look in the ADV HoW) by bumping the engine back and forth at OT and listening for the fuel pump to run. Using a dial indicator in the spark plug hole is more accurate. If the idea of listening for the fuel pump (I think this only happens when rotating in the reverse direction) sounds too hokey to you, you can read the voltage at the HES connector.

Bikerboy: yes you can clip a timing light on and look through the hole. Pay no attention to what you see, though. Under normal conditions I find that this shows overadvance (my R11RS has an F mark). No way that I know of to stop the Motronic from doing what it's supposed to do.

[phoenixtexoma]

Anton: You know a lot about the R bikes. I'm a former dealership type (Big D Triumph), but the S is only my second oilhead. On the Brit bikes, you had a screw-out plug and tool to lock the crank at true TDC. Is there a feature like this on the 259s? Haven't found any reference to one.

[Boybiker3]

Originally Posted by AntonLargiader

Bikerboy: yes you can clip a timing light on and look through the hole. Pay no attention to what you see, though. Under normal conditions I find that this shows overadvance (my R11RS has an F mark). No way that I know of to stop the Motronic from doing what it's supposed to do.

Anton - thanks for your reply. How can you adjust the timing if your only means of checking is the fuel pump done statically and backwards? At the least, you'd like to have some rough notion of what the ECU thinks is the right timing advance curve and how it changes that and how you might like to change all of that.

Pretty sure there's no F or Z mark on the R1100S flywheel. With what you say, not too much need for it at the dealers shop since the ECU does all the advancing and that can never be wrong.

Being a big issue in power production, it sounds like only the custom chip burners who know anything about R1100S timing and they ain't talking. Yet.

[AntonLargiader]

Originally Posted by phoenixtexoma

On the Brit bikes, you had a screw-out plug and tool to lock the crank at true TDC. Is there a feature like this on the 259s? Haven't found any reference to one.

TDC lock pin. I'm sure this is refenced in the ADVRider HoW. I think there's a write-up on how to make one; it should show how it's used.

Originally Posted by Boybiker3

How can you adjust the timing if your only means of checking is the fuel pump done statically and backwards? At the least, you'd like to have some rough notion of what the ECU thinks is the right timing advance curve

All you can do that way is adjust the static timing (thus offsetting the Motronic's mystery advance by a fixed amount everywhere).

Are you really asking, how can you dynamically adjust the timing in a meaningful way? You're on your own. Make marks on the flywheel or somewhere else useful. Note the conditions for each dyno run in terms of Motronic inputs (air temp, engine temp, TPS voltage, O2 sensor maybe [just guessing], etc.). Basically decode the map(s). Otherwise all you can do is change where the engine thinks TDC is and then you get whatever the Motronic thinks is correct.

Yeah, a lot of work. Maybe that's why there's so little public info on this.

[Boybiker3]

Originally Posted by AntonLargiader

All you can do that way is adjust the static timing (thus offsetting the Motronic's mystery advance by a fixed amount everywhere).

Are you really asking, how can you dynamically adjust the timing in a meaningful way? You're on your own. Make marks on the flywheel or somewhere else useful. Note the conditions for each dyno run in terms of Motronic inputs (air temp, engine temp, TPS voltage, O2 sensor maybe [just guessing], etc.). Basically decode the map(s). Otherwise all you can do is change where the engine thinks TDC is and then you get whatever the Motronic thinks is correct.

Yeah, a lot of work. Maybe that's why there's so little public info on this.

A thoughtful answer, much appreciated and from a guy we all respect a lot.

A few weeks ago there was joking about having a manual ambient air temp adjustable potentiometer to fool the ECU into different fueling richness (kind of like a manual spark advance from long ago).

BTW, fudging the Hall sensor position also affects the injector timing. Of course, if you are riding a bike with a wasted-spritz design like the R1100S you may not be loosing sleep over the exact injector timing. Or does injector timing matter much? Does injector timing and cam advancing interact?

Does anybody know if the RapidBike III lets you change the spark timing the way you tune for A/F or is spark timing fixed-set in the RB?

[Dr. Curve]

OK guys. First, if you really want to know.........establish top dead center by using two matching (or close) micrometers with extenders which can go down into the piston area via the center plug. You will be reading how far up a piston comes before it starts going back down.

Remove plugs and put both micrometers in position. Establish TDC on one side or the other and reset Micro to 0 at that point. Now when the crank is even touched the micrometer will move so that when its on 0, you are on TDC on that cylinder. Get TDC , this side, perfect and go to other side of bike.

Follow same steps and carefully establish the TDC on the second cylinder. Once TDC in noted reset micrometer to O and double check to make sure that TDC is marked with a O even after some movement.

Note now that, even though it should be, the first micrometer you set on the other cylinder is now NOT reading O.......while the other cylinder, you just set, IS! Mess with crank movement and move the pistons around some. Still, come back and set either cylinder on O so that it is at TDC.

The distance or degree of movement BETWEEN where the two opposing cylinder indicate O is where ACTUAL TDC is...........this the ACTUAL TDC you need to be concerned with. Use this as TDC, mark it with care, and like Anton said, then just let the Motronic do its work, you will see a difference.

Accuracy is job one for this type of "TDC Marking" but its not a job you will need to do but once.

Lots of careful tuning on a dead stock R11S will yield a bike that will run above 140 with ease.