R12 spline maintenance opinions wanted

cageyar · cageyar's Garage

I've read a lot of issues with splines, both clutch and drive.
This spring, my R12S will have 12K miles and in addition to the 12K service, I'm comtemplating doing the clutch splines. I've done the FD splines twice so far-once at the 600 mile fluid change and again at the 6K mile service. I use a 50/50 combination of Honda Moly 60 paste and a synthetic NLGI No. 2 grease primarily since it's been my experience that 100% moly paste dries out too much without some grease to keep it moist.
Anyway, what are the opinions, pro & con about greasing the clutch and drive splines at 12K miles. Thanks for the input.

shreddr · shreddr's Garage

The SKRR has no splines!

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Can you even do that without removing the tranny on the R12S? I just did my 12k mile service and there was plenty of good, clean-looking grease on the drive splines. I don't think I'll be unnecessarily tearing into my clutch while the bike is still in warranty and I'm having no issues there. My 993, however, looks to be having clutch spline issues and a tranny removal might be imminent. But it has 68k miles on it and the clutch has 30k miles on it.

cageyar · cageyar's Garage

No, you're right the tranny has to be removed.
That doesn't necessarily stop me from doing it if it makes the splines last.
After greasing the FD splines at 600 miles, I was surprised to find about 1/3 of the grease/moly combo remaining. Not dry by any means but a noticable loss of the lubricant.
I'm just wondering what others have done or not done in terms of spline maintenance time/mileage intervals.
Thanks!

Droptarotter · Droptarotter's Garage

I'm doing the drive splines now..........but will leave the clutch splines.

cageyar · cageyar's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Droptarotter

I'm doing the drive splines now..........but will leave the clutch splines.

Thanks Bryan.
Are you pulling the swingarm to gease the gearbox output shaft?

JimMoore · 10-22-2009, 04:35 AM

IMO, either you have a good one or you have a bad one. If you have a bad one, you can lube it every day and it will still blow up at 30K miles, +/- 1000. If you have a good one, it will run forever. There is rarely an in-between case.

If you simply MUST do something, pull it apart at 25K. Not to lube per se, but just to have a look. If the splines look good, lube 'em up, put it back together, and forget about it. If they look bad, trade it in on a S1KRR. Simple.

Bob Hancock · 10-22-2009, 05:38 AM

My R12S just went over 28,000 miles yesterday and I haven't looked at any splines. My fervent hope is that ignorance will suffice as it has for most of my life.

Seriously.....I can't see the use of pulling all that apart just to see. It's the pulling apart that takes the time and money, so if I'm gonna do that I think it should be because there's a problem. When I sold my 2004 R11S at 46,000 miles everything was running great and the splines had not seen light since they were installed in Germany. So maybe do this check-it-out-pull-apart at 50,000 miles?

cageyar · cageyar's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimMoore

IMO, either you have a good one or you have a bad one. If you have a bad one, you can lube it every day and it will still blow up at 30K miles, +/- 1000. If you have a good one, it will run forever. There is rarely an in-between case.

If you simply MUST do something, pull it apart at 25K. Not to lube per se, but just to have a look. If the splines look good, lube 'em up, put it back together, and forget about it. If they look bad, trade it in on a S1KRR. Simple.

Based on what has been said about good and bad splines on this forum, what you say makes a lot of sense. If it's bad/mis-aligned/etc. from the factory, additional maintenance isn't going to increase the service life-Thanks.

cageyar · cageyar's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hancock

My R12S just went over 28,000 miles yesterday and I haven't looked at any splines. My fervent hope is that ignorance will suffice as it has for most of my life.

Seriously.....I can't see the use of pulling all that apart just to see. It's the pulling apart that takes the time and money, so if I'm gonna do that I think it should be because there's a problem. When I sold my 2004 R11S at 46,000 miles everything was running great and the splines had not seen light since they were installed in Germany. So maybe do this check-it-out-pull-apart at 50,000 miles?

You're probably right-I'm taking the Ohlins off, F&R this winter to have the remote resevoir installed in the front, change both springs and fluid, and put the hydraulic adjusters on-I will use that downtime to pull the swingarm and grease the gearbox output splines. But I'll probably let the clutch splines ride.
Thanks for the feedback.

JimMoore · 10-22-2009, 11:52 AM

One thing you can do is pull the starter off, then hold the clutch in and reach in with a long screwdriver and see if the clutch rotates on the shaft. It's pretty easy on a GS, not sure on an S.

cageyar · cageyar's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimMoore

One thing you can do is pull the starter off, then hold the clutch in and reach in with a long screwdriver and see if the clutch rotates on the shaft. It's pretty easy on a GS, not sure on an S.

Are you saying that if the clutch doesn't spin on the shaft, it's evidence of a lack of lubrication/grease on the shaft? Thanks.

JimMoore · 10-23-2009, 04:42 AM

If the splines are worn the disc will rotate back and forth (a little bit) while the shaft stays still. If the splines are gtg, they will move together. It's a little hard to explain, but once you see it you will know what I'm talking about.

cageyar · cageyar's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimMoore

If the splines are worn the disc will rotate back and forth (a little bit) while the shaft stays still. If the splines are gtg, they will move together. It's a little hard to explain, but once you see it you will know what I'm talking about.

I got it now, thanks.

KMoore · 10-23-2009, 05:19 AM

Have there been any R1200S' with worn clutch splines? It seems a very indiscriminate issue with R1100's, some going quite early and many having no problems, even with very high mileage. I can't recall any mention on here of problems with the 1200.

cageyar · cageyar's Garage

I haven't heard of any to date.
I'm just trying to balance my obsessive need to maintain with doing the most to enhance the bike's longevity.

I'll grease the FD splines again and the gearbox output shaft splines for the first time this winter while doing other suspension upgrades.

Bob Hancock · 10-23-2009, 05:42 AM

Be interesting to know how they look.....and by that I mean not how much lube they have, but if you can detect any wear. At 12,000 miles I would expect there to be none.

Guest24 · 10-23-2009, 05:48 AM

I'm just curious as to why two dissimilar metals in contact with each other on a shaft that is definitely vibrating wouldn't wear over a period of use. There are high temp lubes that would not threaten the clutch disk materiel. I assume that it comes from the factory sans lubricant.

Droptarotter · Droptarotter's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by cageyar

Thanks Bryan.
Are you pulling the swingarm to gease the gearbox output shaft?

Cage;
I am not pulling the swing arm............I am with some of the other guys on this one......you either get a good or bad one.
The reason I say this is my experience with the airheads.........on one bike I lubed the clutch splines every winter......another bike....I never touched.........and I never had a problem on either bike.
I am not saying that is the proper thing to do........as I do believe that the more maintenance the better.......to an extent.........but at my age I would just rather ride.......and by the time the clutch splines wear out........I might be pushing up daisies?

Go figure?
Cheers

cageyar · cageyar's Garage

Thanks Bryan-got lots of good feedback.