..........I finally sold my R11S ..........

[mark albers]

R11S Aficionados

My last name is German and its probably a sin
But I sold my 99 R11S today

I cant believe it took a year an half and $250 in ad money
to sell the machine

I had a great 3 years with it
But I still am disapointed that BMW did not raise the bar on performance

I have been critical in the pass about their direction
As many of you feel
It will be long time before I ride a Bimmer again
I definatly can contest to its not holding a value

But as I ride my Aprilia RSV-R
I will remember the great tips it took me on (pancho villa in Mexico)

I guess as I exit with my dissertation
The moral to the saga is
Dont buy a new Motorcycle especially a BMW
Let somebody else take the hit on deprecation

Take care

Mark Albers
Sarasota - - - W F O (only on an aprilia)

[Rattus]

Well Rotax of Austria makes the Aprilia's engine (if I'm not mistaken) so that's close enough. I spoke to an Aprilia dealer and he said that the servicing frequency is every 3,000KM. I thought that was a bit harsh.

[motoman]

The market is definitely soft for used S bikes...

BUT: the book value is still pretty high... SO, you could go to the BMW dealer and trade it in on another BMW... You might get more in trade than you will selling it.. A rare reversal!

[Tool]

Greetings, boys and girls...

I'm kind of new around here; shopping for an R11S!

Why is the market "softer" on the "S" than other models? Too niche?

I agree that BMW's don't hold value the way I'd wish, but I look at it a bit different - No offense intended, and not like I can afford to be this way, but I don't let the "investment" aspect drive my purchase when I buy motorcycles.

I figure whatever the cost is to own a machine, it's my job to extract a comparable amount of pleasure out of my time with it.

Too simplistic?

See ya round,
Tool

[mark albers]

Hey Motoman

I will bet you $100 that you could not find a dealer in US
That would have payed me more than $8,000 for a R11S

As far as buying a motorcycle not as an investment....
Go ahead and buy a new for $15,500
Because money grows on trees (palm) in San Diego

Mark
Sarasota - - - W F O

[718Rider]

I know I'm a little hosed on the resale value of my S, but I love the bike, and will prob. hang on to it for a while. I didn't buy it to look at it, and I don't understand any of this bike as investment stuff. Face it - unless you're buying a Harley don't expect to get your money back out of your bike. I've had my S, and beat the crap out of it in NYC, and in the last year pounded 10,500 hard miles on the beast. She just keeps getting better and better. My Ducati/Aprillia friends sure spend a lot of time throwing cash at valve jobs, and outrageous labor rates. I like the stying of the bike, and it's plenty fast to keep up with just about any of the bikes I see around town 'till about 100 MPH.

I'll tell you who gets seriously hosed on resale value - Ducati owners. Check out the market for used ST4s. There's a 2001 sitting at the Beemer dealer in the city for 9,500. I say if you're looking to buy a bike for resale, then maybe you shouldn't buy it in the first place.

[pdonnell]

I think for the most part you always get hosed on bikes. Just comes with the territory. I could cite my recent loss on my KRS but have a better story. In late January of this year, after having been on the list for 9 months, I got a call from Britalia Motors. They wanted $2500 as an advance for my MV F4 Senna. MSRP was to be $25900. They told me the bike would be built and shipped to me within 90 days. I said this is smokin fast for an Italian product. They agreed (and were doubtful as to the timing) but were told to pass this on.
.
Unfortunately, saddled with a KRS, heavy taxes pending blah..blah...blah. I passed on the offer. Had the delivery been 6 months I would have bitten. And then last week while perusing the usual hotspots on the net I notice a guy outta N.Y. selling his Senna (recieved in April) for $22,000 with 90 miles on it.?
.
Goes to show that even a production of 300 bikes, with 50-75 shipped to the states go down in value quickly.

[JeffD]

Well I was lucky I got $8000.00 for my 99 S with 40,000 miles on it and I don't think losing $5900.00 for 40,000 miles is too bad. I also just sold my KLR 650 with 2600 miles for $400.00 less than I paid for it.

[motoman]

Originally posted by mark albers
Hey Motoman

I will bet you $100 that you could not find a dealer in US
That would have payed me more than $8,000 for a R11S

As far as buying a motorcycle not as an investment....
Go ahead and buy a new for $15,500

Mark: I already bought a new one a year ago, and were I to sell right now I'm probably looking at the same losses as you. It will take some kind of 'cachet' or demand to keep the price up. The S is still not a well-known bike to non-BMW riders. I still meet people all the time who have never seen one, and do not know the differences between the models..

As far as that bet, when you ask for a trade-in value, most dealers yank out their NADA/Kelly book. All I'm saying is if you hold them to their own pricing guidelines, it might get interesting... You might at least have them at a disadvantage..

[mark albers]

Motoman

The dealers in Florida were not even interested in a trade
They gave me that look like I was asking to trade a Yugo

I would bet you guys that your local dealers dont have any R11S's instock

I would also bet BMW drops this model in less then 2 years
I would suggest to everyone to bail now
But you would be left in a black hole for who knows how long

Sorry for the negativity
But 2 years trying to sell a marquee machine is not fare

BMW has their head up somebody's ass
Could you amagined how the model would have progress with added performance

Remeber my thoughts a while back on the direction to take

Make the R11S equivalent to the M3 auto

Mark
Sarasota - - - W F O

[markjenn]

We hear you Mark. Sorry for you loss. Bye.

- Mark

[motoman]

Originally posted by mark albers
I would bet you guys that your local dealers dont have any R11S's instock

I would also bet BMW drops this model in less then 2 years

That's kind of what I'm talking about... People only want what they can't get...

Look at the R69S, the R90S... Prices holding up remarkably well after 25+ years...

This bike is wine in the bottle.. and it's aging well!

[R-monster]

I agree with you completely . I was so lucky, I bought my BMW for $14,500 and sold it for $13750 with bags one year later. I would NEVER buy a BMW new if you paid me. I feel they are way overpriced for the power and technology. I have a Hayabusa now and I would never go back until BMW ups the ante and become competitive in power and technology.

I loved the charm of the bike with the horizontal engine but 85hp and 225 km/h is pitiful by today's standards. The warranty was excellent and helped a lot in selling the vehicle.


I do not agree with those who say that you always lose money on bikes. I have bought and sold many bikes and more often than nought ,have made money on bikes by buying low and riding for a year and selling the bike.

The S is a great $ 12,000 bike not an $18000 (Canadian) one!

Why would anybody buy new if a used bike is available mint with warranty? My bike was a BMW Canada bike which had 3500 miles and the warranty started the day I bought it in 2001 (even though it was a 1999 model!)

A guy here in Toronto tried to sell his 2001 S with abs for $19,900 even though he paid $25,000 with tax. He called me to see if I had sold my 1999 S for $13999 . Why would somebody in their right mind pay him $6000 more dollars for the same bike ? ( except the ABS). I told him he would have to drop the price at least to 17,000 dollars since a local dealer had a brand new S in Black/yellow for 17,900!

Dont you just love BMW's? Buy your BMW's in Canada. A new S sells for $18000 or 11,600 US and you could get the retail taxes back!

A new thread should be started " Are BMW's worth the money'?

[RAlvidrez]

The lack of resale value is certainly a common lament on this and other BMW motorcycles sites.

I have sold 3 BMW motorcycles in the last 2 years and took a beating on the ones a purchased new and sold the one a purchased used for what I paid for it. If I had to do it over again, I would probably buy a very low mile used S and save a bunch of money on depreciation.

That said, I don't intend to sell my S anytime soon. Although it's not the fastest bike on the planet, it goes fast enough for me. I spent last Sunday with a group of riders that included several Hayabusas, GSXRs and Ducs. While all of these bikes are faster, I did not get left behind by any means. Face it, on public roads there is only so much speed that you can use no matter what the ride.

I purchased the S because it is unique, dependable and has anti-lock brakes. It suits my riding style as I like to tour and do 500 miles days without undue fatigue. The fact that it is a BMW also helps. While I saw several 996s, 998s and GSXRs on Sunday, I only saw one S - mine. I like the exclusivity. I hope that BMW does not sell many for that reason.

[R-monster]

RAlvidrez ,

I agree that it is nice not to see your bike in a group of many other bikes. Is it worth a 40% premium? Is BMW as well crafted like an Italian Bike? For example, a Ducati 998, Benelli Tornado etc...That is what I mean by Italian craftsmanship. Just look at the details in the footpegs on a 998. In fact the S is crudely constructed in many ways. Look at the fasteners they use, the awful bolt to seal the rear drive, the oil drain plug etc...

Time for BMW to start listening to the customer complaints. Look how the Japanese managed to focus on the customer's desires and become market leaders in so many categories.

[DavidSoine]

R-monster said:

"Is BMW that well crafted like an Italian Bike? I dont think so. In fact , it is crudely constructed in many ways. Look at the fasteners they use."


Well that's a new one!....LOL!

-ds

[Chris Geuting]

Hallo
I also sold my S and ride a 1150RS now
because I thought for the lack of comfort/
practicality the S should make up in the
performance department;maybe next year if
the 140hp Kompressor rumours on the german
S Board are true...
BMW are getting speny and the resale is not
that great,especially on the S;true.
They should give the S more performance and
not the Boxercup cosmetic make-up;true.
But if you want a decent-sporty bike that
doesn't request frequent visits to the
chiropractor,has detachable bags,ABS and
no Fred Flintstone chaindrive there is no
alternative to the 1100S or 1150RS...
If BMW just wouldn't be so stubborn and give
us a little higher redline and additional
20hp,everybody would be happy!
Hayabusa hp might be nice once on the Autobahn but on a real world twisty road the
S will leave the Haya for dead...
As for the "higher craftsmanship" of italian
bikes,as nice as they look in the showroom.
I'm glad that BMW's are not build to "italian
standarts";on Ducati boards you can read
about rusting tanks (from inside) and rusting
frames on one year old bikes.$800 valve
adjust-jobs,too.The Aprilia Mille is a nice
bike;but the resale value is even lower than
that of an S;I have seen new MilleR leftovers
from last year for $4500off at dealerships
and don't try to get parts,good luck!
Ride happy
Chris

[flynbmw]

Not to mention those "flaking" rocker arms that Ducati refuses to acknowledge...
Seriously, about the only way that you will not "take a bath" on selling a fairly new motorcycle is to keep it for a long time. I have a friend at work who is always finding clean, low mileage motorcycles for "cheap", riding them for a season (or less) then selling them for what he payed for them (or more). He found me a 1995 Yamaha XT 225 (how exciting!!!) with 900 miles on it for $1800.00. It just does not pay to buy new unless you are going to keep it for awhile.

Harold

1999 R1100S, 3 years 36,000 miles old and I'm keeping mine!!!
1995 Yamaha XT 225

[markjenn]

My $0.02 is that bike depreciation is more constant across brands than most of you think. A friend just sold his three-year-old S for $9000 after paying $14,800. 39% depreciation. Another friend sold his 3-year old VFR for $5900 after paying $9200. 36% depreciation. I paid $10,200 for a 98 R1 and sold it in three years for $6900. 37% depreciation. Aprilias, Suzukis, Ducs, Hondas, whatever. I think most folks have a perception that BMW's are "higher quality" and should depreciate a less, but they generally follow the trend lines, more or less.

One thing is that since the S is more uncommon than an R6, they take longer to sell. There simply is a much smaller market so you have to be a little more patient and advertise more widely. The phone doesn't ring as often, but when it does ring, you'll often sell the bike. If you're in a hurry or advertise in a narrow market, you can get badly hosed.

And as for the "why can't a BMW perform with a Honda, or Kawasaki, or Suzuki...." give it a break guys. BMW's have never performed with these bikes and generally BMW has no interest in going toe-to-toe with these guys - if they did, they'd get killed.

If you want the most performance for your buck, look elsewhere. BMW has always catered to a different market for a different rider and they have been VERY successful the last few years doing it.

I'd like to see them improve the reliability, reduce the oil consumption, add some fuel capacity, and smooth the engine, but I have other bikes that are faster and I don't expect the BMW to compete with them. And when the day is done, the BMW gets 5 miles put on it for every mile the other ones get. In the final analysis, when it comes to picking a bike for a ride, things like decent ergos, telelever, heated grips, hard bags, and a torquey twin with a nice powerband, win out over performance more often than not. Your priorities may be different. They are other bikes out there.

To me, the lament that the S should be 20-hp stronger is the same as the lament that Miatas should be quieter and better snow cars.

- Mark

[Jenny]

All you have to do is look at the car industry to know that any vehicle you buy is going to depreciate until it becomes a 'classic', when the price starts to appreciate.

If you think bikes are bad, think about pc's. You buy one new for a few thousand dollars and 2 years later they're worth nothing....

A bike is a toy or a means of transport. A house is an investment.

Jenny