Old Topic Beat to Death- Spline Lube

[nathanmargolis]

Last night I attended the BMW Club of Houston Club meeting with guest speakers of Paul and Voni Glaves. Paul writes wrenching stories for MOA and Voni is a Million Mile BMW Rider. Both are highly respected in the BMW community and I can see why.

After the meeting, I asked Paul about the old topic of spline lube on oil heads. Did tell him about a year ago I randomly called 5 BMW dealers across the country and all said not needed unless you are in there for a clutch. Paul said he recommends every 40K and the reason BMW does NOT recommend in his opinion is they do not want to scare away potential new owners with maintenance cost that magazines publish (Consumer Motorcycle and others). He said BMW labor on this about 8 hours so you are looking at $700 to $1,000 in the shop and then when you are in there, might as well do a clutch.

Did discuss with a "salty old" BMW mechanic that is highly respected in Houston and he said if nothing is done for spline shaft maintenance, expect problems about 80K.

This is something I may be able to do myself, but would not look forward to doing as it would take me a full weekend plus a learning curve and probably only do once in a lifetime.

QUESTION: Has anyone gone over 80K miles on their oilhead, never had spline greased, and had no problem? I am making the assumption that my clutch will over 80K.

Thank you,
'02 R1150RT 41K
'04 R1100S 30K

[ckcarr]

Is spline lubing even a topic on the other BMW models, or is it just a discussion here on the r1100s, r1200s board? Are spline failures exclusive to the r1100s? or does it happen to the other models? Do those people ride r1100s bikes, or have worked on them? Riders of the r1100s and r1200s bikes are like fringe members of the BMW society....

I actually don't have any idea if there are spline failures on other models since I only frequent this site...

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by nathanmargolis

QUESTION: Has anyone gone over 80K miles on their oilhead, never had spline greased, and had no problem?

Mine was at 50K with no maintenance before I sold it. It's done another 20K with its new owner without any spline problems, although it has developed a slow tranny seal leak. I have two other friends with oilhead GS's that are in the 50K-70K range of miles without problem. I can't pull up references on demand, but there have been numerous reports of folks going 100K+ or even 200K+ without maintenance or problems.

While I respect the opinions of experienced mechanics, my take after doing a lot of reading about this over the years is that there are many machines where a 40K lube regimen won't help and conversely many machines where a 40K lube regiment is unnecessary. In between is a relatively small fraction of machines where 40K maintenance makes a difference and where other issues won't intervene (clutch, seals, etc.) that will require you to get into this area anyway. Given the difficultly and expense, I doubt the chances you're in the sweet spot here make it worth the trouble to crack into the bike just to do a lube.

I do agree that the design is inherently flawed from a maintenance standpoint and that BMW has chosen to simply ignore the problem and accept the consequences. This flaw, along with the general difficulty of servicing the clutch, final drive, etc. and the overall problems with seal issues, had steered me away from owning an oilhead, despite their stellar riding qualities. I'm very interested in the new water-cooled design to see if it corrects these problems. In the meantime, I'm riding a Super Tenere which impresses me as damn near bulletproof and completely straightforward with respect to clutch and final drive maintenance. But I don't think it is as nice an overall ride as the GS.

- Mark

[motoyoyo]

QUESTION: Has anyone gone over 80K miles on their oilhead, never had spline greased, and had no problem? I am making the assumption that my clutch will over 80K.

Checked mine at 79k miles for the first time and they were toast. Obviously been on the way out for some time but never felt any symptoms or had a full on failure. Typical wear patterns on both the splines and clutch hub. All needs to be replaced. I would say your "salty old" BMW mechanic is right on in his assesment.

[RT_Russ]

My 02RT ATE the transmission input shaft due to the input bearing failure rather quickly at 42 k miles. Gearbox misalignment was the suspect. Had a new front cover installed during the gearbox rebuild. I WILL tear it down again at or near the 80k service to inspect and lube splines. I recent bought my 01 S with 34k miles, now 38k miles on it. This winter I will pull the gearbox on it to lube and inspect. The luxury of 2 or more bikes.........wrench one, ride another :-)

Hawk

[Sideshow_S]

I bought my '99 in 2005 with 22K on the clock. I assumed it didn't have any spline lubing done. It's has 142K on it now and has never had the transmission off under my ownership. Original clutch still hooking up just fine. I did have a vibration a few times through the miles. Once that was a driveshaft that went bad. The other time was that I installed the replacement driveshaft out of phase, much to my surprise as I swear it was lined up when I was doing it. (Grrr.)

EDIT: I'm always amazed the number of people Voni and Paul know. I feel lucky to have met them along the way. Very nice couple, those two. I know a few people through BMW's in the Midwest region, but those Glaves sure seem to know owners across the nation and beyond.

[tjs]

1st batch of R1150RT's. Then police bikes. The only hexhead I had to replace the IP spline was on an 05 GS. That was in 2010 with 46K on the bike. tjs

[JimMoore]

Originally Posted by nathanmargolis

QUESTION: Has anyone gone over 80K miles on their oilhead, never had spline greased, and had no problem? I am making the assumption that my clutch will over 80K.

I put 100K milwes on one oilhead and 129K miles on another one. Neither had spline problems, nor were they lubed. OTOH, my current R1100S has destroyed two sets of splines in 60K miles, and I lubed the hell out of it when I had it apart at 40K. I'm firmly in the "you get a good one or a bad one" camp.

You can always check it by pulling the starter, tying off the clutch lever, and looking throgh the starter hole. If you have rotational play between the clutch disc and the transmission input shaft, you got trouble. if not, you're good-to-go.

[bikerfish1100]

was going to do a spline lube on mine at round 75K, but the input shaft deconstructed at 72K. had some recalcitrant downshiftn going on for about K miles beforehad- very sporadic and random, but only 4to3 or 3to2 downshifts.

no issues since then.

Jim- your 11S has an alignment issue. unless you want to keep replacing clutches & shafts every 30K or so, you need to get that corrected.

[R111S]

Lubed my '99 R1100S @50K Miles...all was dusty red oxide that time. The Clutch had more to go so didn't replace it. @70k Miles I replaced the entire Clutch Assembly and relubed the spline using Honda Moly 60 Paste.

[txmxrider]

Actually Voni put over 100,000 miles on an R1100S (and 900,000 more on a variety of other BMWs). Considering the miles Paul and Voni ride, the maintenance that Paul does on their own bikes, plus the work he does on other people's bikes, and judging by the monthly tech article he writes in the BMW MOA magazine, I think he's a pretty reliable resource.

I think ultimately the decision to do the 40,000 mile spline service comes down to whether you have other problems (oil seals, clutch etc) around that timeframe or where you fall on the scale of anal retentiveness.

[QUOTE=ckcarr;7027160] Do those people ride r1100s bikes, or have worked on them? Riders of the r1100s and r1200s bikes are like fringe members of the BMW society....QUOTE]

[JimMoore]

Originally Posted by bikerfish1100

Jim- your 11S has an alignment issue. unless you want to keep replacing clutches & shafts every 30K or so, you need to get that corrected.

Believe me, I know. I sent the transmission off to be corrected / fixed the first time. It didn't work. Now I'm trying a known-good used transmission.

What's your current mileage on that S, btw? Have you checked the new splines through the starter hole?

[bikerfish1100]

just over 95K on it now. pulled starter to clean and lube last winter. splines looked good.
a friend of mine did the repair, and he sent the shaft out to a local dirtbike (MX) racing outfit. they did a treatment on the shaft that they call "Supertech". sounded like it was a lube impregnating process. he is so confident about that process that he wanted to put it back together without even lubing it at all. i insisted that he add some Moly to the deal.

[JimMoore]

How did he compensate for the misalignment?

[lkchris]

Is there an online "procedure" for R1100S spline lube?

[josephvman]

8 hours seems excessive for a spline lube job, even at a BMW dealer. In my opinion, all the lube in the world isn't going to make much difference if there's an alignment issue. It seems kind of rare for guys who lube them to find them dry at the specified interval, but it can't hurt and it might let you catch an issue before it becomes symptomatic, or worse leaves you stranded in the middle of nowhere. K75's were known for their spline issues, and I think Voni Glaves put the majority of her miles on those.

[PFFOG]

Originally Posted by markjenn

.................

While I respect the opinions of experienced mechanics, my take after doing a lot of reading about this over the years is that there are many machines where a 40K lube regimen won't help and conversely many machines where a 40K lube regiment is unnecessary. In between is a relatively small fraction of machines where 40K maintenance makes a difference and where other issues won't intervene (clutch, seals, etc.) that will require you to get into this area anyway. Given the difficultly and expense, I doubt the chances you're in the sweet spot here make it worth the trouble to crack into the bike just to do a lube................

- Mark

My thoughts too, at 48K mine looked new when inspected through the starter. I did spray it with some "magic" Krytox spray, after doing a bunch of research, don't know if it will help, or if I got a "good" one.

I wouldn't split just to lube, unless there was positive evidence it helped, which will never exist because of the erratic nature of the failure, there is no way to tell if lube helped.

[wswartzwel]

Originally Posted by lkchris

Is there an online "procedure" for R1100S spline lube?

Try this one.


Dr. Splinelube…or How I stopped worrying and learn to love the bike…

[lkchris]

Originally Posted by wswartzwel

Try this one.


Dr. Splinelube…or How I stopped worrying and learn to love the bike…

Thanks for posting this.

[bikerfish1100]

Originally Posted by josephvman

8 hours seems excessive for a spline lube job, even at a BMW dealer. In my opinion, all the lube in the world isn't going to make much difference if there's an alignment issue. It seems kind of rare for guys who lube them to find them dry at the specified interval, but it can't hurt and it might let you catch an issue before it becomes symptomatic, or worse leaves you stranded in the middle of nowhere. K75's were known for their spline issues, and I think Voni Glaves put the majority of her miles on those.

wrong wrong wrong.

you have to rip the entire ass end open, yank trans, then put it all back together. 8 hours is about right, even for those who have done it before. (Bill S not included- he's a real master)
from what i've read, most do find the splines to be dry. the alignment issue is much less common than is the need for lubing.
Voni put most of her miles on oilheads- with over 365,000 on Big Red, her R1100RS. Paul has put most of his 700,000+ BMW miles on K75s, with nearly half of them on "Ol' Smokey".