Cat Code Plugs and a Dyno Run

BMWSBK · 11-13-2002, 03:48 AM

Folks,

I would love see a bone stock S run on a dyno and then do several other runs with different color Cat Code plugs installed. Finally do a run with no Cat Code plug. This test would take a whole lot of the mystery out what is really going on in that Motronic 2.4 computer. It would also take out the "seat of the pants" factor, which can be very biased and way off base. Anyone have the resources to do this?

Rick

brad black · 11-13-2002, 09:37 PM

i really don't mean to be rude - it seems to be my mood today - but why don't you front up with the money and the spare time and do it for us?

then you'll know. i got a bit sick of people asking me to do this or that when i had mine. it ended up with 106 dyno runs on it. any idea how much that costs?

gee, i'm a real petty prick today. sorry.

brad

BMWSBK · 11-14-2002, 03:46 AM

If I had a stock "S", the cat code plugs, the time off from work, and a dyno that wasn't 45 miles away... I could make it happen. I simply thought the data might already be out there somewhere, after all isn't this a function of the this BBS???

brad black · 11-14-2002, 02:30 PM

anyone??????

here's hoping. i don't even have an s anymore.

don't hold your breath bmwsbk.

brad

moose · 11-14-2002, 07:04 PM

Brad, did you have a bad day? If I'm in Australia, I'll buy you a beer. Or two. Or six,....

brad black · 02:10 AM

my day was just fine - i'm just a cynical, sarcastic prick who has had many, many people tell me over the years what i should do for them because they don't want to make the effort, etc.

one of those someone, everyone, anyone, no-one things.

i do, however, have complete confidence in the fact that the above request will never be filled, because no-one will make the time, effort or cough up the cash.

which was my point. just based on experience and knowledge of people. i wasn't trying to be rude to bmwsbk, just pointing out that sometimes, if you want to know, you need to do things for yourself.

without blowing too much smoke up my own arse, i would say if i hadn't purchased an s and made all the dyno runs and 18 hour round trips to fim, there would be no fim chips for s models. just like there won't be any for r/gs models until i buy one and give it to fim to test. and when i have done it, i will always get "why didn't you test this exhaust or this aircleaner" or some other crap. because some one always wants it a bit different, even if it is an obscure bit of info that applies to only them.

i do it because i enjoy it, altho i have come to realise i am the only one not making any money out of any of it, but i get lots of contra from fim and staintune.

and, everyone says "you can use my bike anytime you like" until you actually want to, then it's just a parade of excuses. trublue mick is a very rare exception.

i don't pay much attention, therefore, to people who ask others to go out and do something they aren't prepared to do themselves, or which they won't follow thru. i myself have not followed thru on a few things, and deservedly get **** for it. i am currently getting it from r/gs owners because the promised stuff is taking so long.

i'm sure anyone on the board who has a few years of customer service experience will know exactly where i'm coming from.

cynical and sarcastic, as i said. not rude tho, or intentionally offensive or superior. and i always digress from the point.

brad

lennie · 11-17-2002, 02:06 AM

Brad,

I did not take it any other way than what you intended.

It takes a lot of work as you know to stick the money, time and certainly the effort to get things where they are.

Anyone involved in R&D will know that. My items while being simple, have been difficult to get made due to other peoples lack of effort in manufacturing side.

If I actually made them myself I would accept the responsibility, but it is still no real excuse for my customers and Joe public.

I for one, appreciate the effort you have put into the tuning of the S and you still have a few contras up your sleeve for that alone.

What has come out of it for me, more importantly is the friendship and mutual respect for the effort each of us including FIM have put in.

I don't think badly of anyone who asks the questions that they do, and unless they do they will never really understand.

Hope everyone is having a great weekend as I have on this great island called Tasmania.

11-17-2002, 02:30 PM

Well I've done half the job in that I've tried the various configurations of cat code plug but only on the road and not on the dyno. My conclusions were that no code plug at all is by far and away the best set up, with any of the cat code configurations fitted the bike ran worse, most noticeably the surging and small throttle opening response was worse in varying degrees. I couldn't say whether peak hp was any different but the smoothness of the motor certainly suffered with the code plugs in, even the standard S one. I run mine with no code plug fitted and it doesn't surge at all, and throttle response is smooth and predictable, only becoming slightly jerky at below 2000rpm. Hope this is of some help.

repoe3 · 11-17-2002, 03:02 PM

aside from the varying opinions about what removing the cat code plug actually does, what would be the result of removing it from a bike with mods like induct, k&n, staintunes, chip? i intend on trying this myself, just wondering if someone has already done this. and are there differen part numbers for cat code plugs in other markets, ie UK, germany, etc? thanks in advance.
repoe3

brad black · 11-17-2002, 10:03 PM

andrew - which of the coding plugs did you try?

repoe - the fim chip has the same map over all 8 available ccp configurations, so it won't matter at all what you do.

the vanderlinde chip that came out of trublue's bike had the vanderlinde map only on map one, with the other 7 maps just the std bmw map. so if you have a vanderlinde i would suggest pulling the coding plug if one is fitted to see if it goes differently.

the bbp chips use the coding plug to change between the maps - generally by supplying a bridging wire to use as appropriate.

i will hassle duane to look a little closer at the map variations, but it'll take a bit of convincing to get him interested i think.

brad

repoe3 · 11-18-2002, 04:20 AM

i have two riding buddies that can use this info to their advantage as they either have bbp or the vanderlinde. you sound in a much better mood

repoe3

Joe · Joe's Garage

repoe3

I made a switchable(6-settings) cat-code plug from a horn relay housing and dip switch, ribbon cable and socket.

I made 16 runs on the dyno in all 6 settings for a BBP chip, A lot of the charts are here Chip ..vs...Pressure Reg.

The results may help your friend with the BBP if he has a similar setup.

11-18-2002, 05:49 AM

I tried all variations by refering to the wiring manual and rewiring the standard code plug to suit. I have also tried this with both standard and Laser chip and the result was the same, bike ran best with no code plug fitted.

TorranceTM · 11-19-2002, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brad black
repoe - the fim chip has the same map over all 8 available ccp configurations, so it won't matter at all what you do.

Brad,

Does the FIM chip override the CCP, or will removing it **possibly** produce different results?

Confused Tom.

Derry Walsh · 11-19-2002, 02:46 PM

I can not believe the difference that it makes in ridability, tractability of my '01 S without the plug! It is amazing. I am still waiting for a comparison (direct) between a bike with the plug in and one without the plug.
Top speed in particular.

brad black · 11-19-2002, 10:51 PM

in the std bmw chip, there is 8 possible control maps for the ecu to use. which map it uses depends on the ccp. the ccp is just a connector bridge between the relay mount connectors used by the ecu to detirmine which map it is supposed to be using. different colour ccp's just have different numbers of prongs - 2 or 3 generally - and different internal wiring to supply voltage to whatever connector is desired. the voltage at a particular connector/connectors will then tell the ecu which map to use.

that is how i understand it. the ccp is just a permanent switch.

so, the yellow ccp may activate map 3, lets say, the pink map 4, the brown map 5.

on the std chip, all 8 control maps can be different. all the s chips 8 fuel maps ( the fuel part of the control map ) are the same, but the rest of the programming for each control map is obviously different in some other way.

the fim chip has the same control map on all 8. so, it shouldn't matter what you do, the map you get will always be the same. the chips were developed on my bike, which came without a ccp, and i would expect it to run the same no matter which colour ccp was in it.

hope that unconfuses you

brad

roger albert · 11-20-2002, 08:37 AM

Hi Brad.

Thanks for the continued dialog. Certainly clears up that the cat code plug (or even lack thereof) won't matter with the FIM chip.

Remember all, the CCP is just a big dumb jumper that's happens to be packaged like a relay, so that it will fit in a standard relay socket in a standard automotive wiring harness. It's no different than moving some jumper on your PC or video card. Also remember it's only read at boot-time. Flipping and changing w/o cycling power (cold boot) won't do anything.

Joe, nice dipswitch setup. Knowing my bike isn't super modified, and making use of serendipitous/convenience of which pins choose which BBPower maps, I was able to use a weatherized toggle spdt toggle switch (with center-off) to select maps 1, 2, or 3. Had I been wanting 3/4/5 it wouldn't have worked so neatly.
Got lucky.

I played a lot, and stuck with bbp map 3.
May have to break down and get a FIM chip.
Then again, a US supplier looks to be jumping into the market soon, so I'll have to see if that pans out, and what configs they support. Truth be told, I like what Lennie and Brad have done, direction/philosophy wise, so I could easily end up with a FIM anyway. Certainly would if I had a Staintune.

Anyway, thanks again for the input Brad. Always appreciated.

Regards
Roger

msparks · 11-20-2002, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMWSBK
Folks,

I would love see a bone stock S run on a dyno and then do several other runs with different color Cat Code plugs installed. Finally do a run with no Cat Code plug. This test would take a whole lot of the mystery out what is really going on in that Motronic 2.4 computer. It would also take out the "seat of the pants" factor, which can be very biased and way off base. Anyone have the resources to do this?

Rick

I don't think the issue would give you more power, I believe bmw has it set up properly for max power and emission. The problem goes with the emissions part, which I believe has various factors with sea level, gasoline quality, and humidity.

It's not the power issue...