2004 Boxster IMS+Clutch cost?

[guruuno]

Going paranoid, 51k miles Boxster 5-speed with no issues, wanting to feel "safe", going to get new IMS bearing upgrade + new clutch/Pressure Plate, throw out bearing, etc., looking for what anticipated cost will be/should be, what else I should consider while in shop.
Also, I'm 2nd owner, no "Certified Pre-Owned" warranty from Porsche dealer, so is there any way to offset any costs with class action lawsuit (25%), or not gonna happen?

[bell]

Our shop would charge 8 hours labor ($96/hr).....plus the parts.
You will need to replace the flywheel bolts also as they are angle torqued, cam plugs 2-4, do the rms too....

I have done many of the ln bearings, and one of the new oil pressure fed imsolitions bearings......
I have confidence in the ln stuff, probably from doing so many and servicing the same cars for years

[guruuno]

And 8x$96 +???=???????

[thom4782]

$800 to $1200 in labor depending on rates

$800 to $2000 in parts depending on how many of the following you install: IMS, RMS, clutch, dual mass flywheel.

[Optical TDI]

Originally Posted by thom4782

$800 to $1200 in labor depending on rates

$800 to $2000 in parts depending on how many of the following you install: IMS, RMS, clutch, dual mass flywheel.

AOS while in there?

[thom4782]

Settlement only pays for costs AFTER IMS has failed. No dollars for preventative replacement. AOS up to you; saves some labor costs and down the road inconvenience

[ghtaboma]

A shop in Phoenix will do it for $2000. L&N IMS, clutch kit, and labor.

[recycled sixtie]

I have been quoted in Edmonton for clutch, ims, rms, etc etc $4400. Make sure that you go to a reputable shop. I have heard stories of a brand new ims bearing sitting on the bench and not being installed. The gullible owner would never know especially when something is not broken......

[jmcn3rd]

About $2k gets IMS/RMS/AOS job and clutch inspection. Next add the clutch parts and oil change.

[jmcn3rd]

Thought you might enjoy these pics. Kept my old bearing for fun which was perfect at 56k, still feel better it was done.

[guruuno]

OK, I pulled the ripcord!

Dropped the car off (2004 Boxster "Base"/5-speed) at the mechanics shop on Sunday (8/18) night, they did the IMS bearing, the rear main seal, the clutch, the pressure plate, the throw out bearing, the oil change, the filter, the brake fluid flush, cost me $3k.
Car went in with 51,300 miles, picked it up Thursday (8/22), put 100 miles on, felt good/relieved.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the car, but I had to do this to feel "safe", and not each time I drove the car feel like, "if it goes, will I want to spend $20k for a new motor", or in other words being proactive.

The same week, I put 1,000 miles on from NJ to Maine and back, enjoyed the car immensely. (8/23-8/26), not having a single worry.

One thing, not sure if it's me or just the way it is (this is my 1st Porsche, never drove one or any other one before this one, now going on 2-1/2 years), but the old clutch to me, seemed to grab high. The new clutch initially for the 1st day seemed to grab softly about 1/2 to 5/8 of the way from the floor up and did not seem as "jerky" as the original clutch. However, after (and during) the miles put on, it seemed to be just like the previous clutch, grabbing high....and I'm curious to know if this is just the way these are designed or is it me or is something maybe needing an adjustment or to be looked at?

Anyway, today, 9/1 I got an automated e-mail at 4:30 AM from eBay for my search of a hardtop for the Boxster, pulled the trigger at 8 AM, drove 500 miles round trip to Massachusetts to pick it up. Sweet deal, $899, all original, 100% pristine, killer deal. I'm sure if anyone has read any of my previous nightmare dilemma posts regarding hardtops, you'll appreciate the fact that the ultimate search ended up with what I wanted. (I had looked at 3 additional hardtops since last August, all were defective, repainted, dinged, more expensive, etc. or had some issue, but this one was worth the wait.

Sorry to go off topic.

Anyway, IMS bearing proactive project done, keeping the car, now the quest to figure out how to hoist the top with the Harbor Freight Tools #40765 and nylon straps without compressing the weatherstripping.

[UNYboater]

Originally Posted by guruuno

OK, I pulled the ripcord!

Do you mind saying where you took it to do the work?

[guruuno]

Oldwick Village Garage
30 Old Turnpike
Oldwick, NJ

I used to drive by this place in the late 80's when I lived near the area, always drooled when I saw all the high end cars in the lot. Come to find out he was also used by many of my acquaintances and bam, blew away the Porsche dealer for value and reputation.

Highly recommend!

[guruuno]

So, I posted on another forum without replies, so excuse me if it appears I am double posting, as it is quite some time since the original post, without much to ponder.

Here we go:

OK, I have an '04 Boxster which I had my mechanic do the IMS bearing update + a new clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing & rear main seal back at the end of this August 2013. At the time of the service, I had absolutely no issues whatsoever with the car, nada, zero issues. I put about 3,000 miles on since that update and yesterday, I noticed upon exiting Interstate 80 on an exit ramp, cranking along at say 60-65, downshifting, my rpm's when in the 3,000 to 3,500 +/- a few rpm's, I have this odd resonating sound, vibration, rumbling of sorts, while de-accelerating. I was not able to duplicate it to the extreme of it's initial introduction, but I was able to hear and feel it close to 80% of it's original, so I went back to the mechanic, informed him, and the very 1st thing he said was, "You know there is a IMS recall....blah, blah....", to which I replied, "I know, you did mine about 2 months ago!" He looked bewildered, suggested it might be the cat converter, and I made an appointment for next Thursday (I'll post to keep all informed).
I guess my question is, if I had no issues prior, and do now after the IMS service, possibly the exhaust system wasn't correctly reinstalled? Or, should I be considering other items that are just the joys of owning a Boxster?

I am approaching day 63 (as of 1/23/14) of this car being at the garage, and I am concerned as to how to move forward. I will need to make a decision this soon.
The garage states he has done the items as I previously referenced, (and now after new motor mounts, transmission mounts, new flywheel, checking oil pressures, valve timings, etc., etc.....no change), however, I'll obviously need to pay him for all of this stuff he has done and pick up the car, bring it to another mechanic and have them review all of the items at what anticipated ballpark cost? And one would assume to tear apart the car again for the umteenth time to look, see, etc., to assist in diagnosing and hopefully resolving the problem.

Reviewing a Google search, I find numerous discussions about this very vibration problem and all sorts of possible "solutions", but none specific to any 1 specific solution (all solutions are different and not 1 specific item is the resolve) and the mechanic has done just about every item listed in all of the forums/postings.

I know that this is a very sticky situation for any 3rd party to get involved in and that there is no guarantee a 3rd party can even solve the issue other than concur the problem exists and generate more labor bills?.and I do understand that this is most likely my only option remaining, but I might ask first before I do pull the ripcord?where do I draw the line? I understand that most likely another mechanic would need to disassemble the rear of the car again (ugggh!, how many time can it be taken apart and put back together again and again and again) to dig deep to find any contributing factors, but do I budget another $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 or just sell the car? (in other words; when does one reach the point of no return where it is no longer worth the investment). I'm approaching $5,000 invested as of now since the IMS project!!!

Finally, on the advice of my attorney, he states that any 3rd party would become the "expert witness" (if needed) as to the identification of the problem and and potential resolution of the problem, and is that something that a 3rd party would be comfortable with? I really don't want to create any conflict with anyone, all I want is the car to be the way it has been for the several years I have had it prior to the IMS work (just a quick recap: I took my Boxster to my mechanic for an oil change and he alerted me to the IMS issue, which I was aware of..and did not have any sign of having the problem, and I chose to have him do the work to be pro-active thinking it would be less costly to do the entire job with all the extras rather than be on pins and needles worrying if I would become a statistic of an IMS failure).

So, after reading all of the postings about the ?3000-3200 RPM Boxster vibration? ( https://www.google.com/search?q=3000-3200+RPM+Boxster+vibration&oq=3000-3200+RPM+Boxster+vibration&aqs=chrome..69i57.437006j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8 ) has anyone maybe having previously diagnosed similar issue and had it resolved?
I know it?s a lot of questions, but like I said, I need to do something, I may have possibly made a bad decision entrusting this other shop to do the work, and now at an additional expense I?ll need to bring it to another mechanic.
What to do, sell it, pay for more diagnosing, live with it?
Key point is: It never existed before the IMS work.

[guruuno]

Oh boy.
I figured I'd take a ride (35+ miles to garage) to check on my baby.
BIG surprise.
I pulled in, did not see car (I was told in early December by the owner after informing him my car doesn't see the weather, is always garaged, and I had concerns about it remaining in a tight parking lot awaiting his next attempted fix)...so he had pulled it into an under the shop storage garage of sorts, never really saw it inside, just the outside doors under the back of the shop.....to appease me I'd think.
I initially went to drop off a new Insurance ID card as the old one was expiring and also figured I'd check in and see what was happening.
He told me he got the new clutch (last conversation the week before, after all the other stuff he has done which did not resolve the problem, so he said, "oh, I didn't know that this vibration issue didn't occur before the IMS work we did", and suggested he thought maybe it was a bad clutch.), and I said good luck, touch base next week, hope that fixes the problem.
On my way out the front door, I saw a buch up Porsche parts laying on the pavement in the parking area (picture attached), and a pickup truck with a boom crane on the back was delivering a junkyard Porsche motor. My heart sank. I thought the worst, but dismissed all negative feelings and went to lunch with my wife. It couldn't be my parts laying on the ground, could it? The motor being delivered couldn't be for my car, could it?
Needless to say, this gut wrenching feeling in my stomach said to go back after lunch and ask questions.
I did.
As I pulled in, the owner was in the front of the shop sweeping ice and water from the pavement. He glanced up to look as I pulled in, recognized it was me, and as I pulled in the back of the shop I parked my car and went up the rear entrance and entered the front of the shop. The owner was nowhere in sight. An employee came by me in a minute or 2 and asked if he could help me. I said yes, I was there to see Dave. He said who are you. I said Bob. About 1-2 minutes later the owner came out of the back of the shop (which is the entrance to the 2 bay garage) with a look on his face like I just caught him with his hand in the cookie jar. He looked like a scared cat. I asked what he thought the timetable for the car was, as it was going on 70+ days there. He walked into the back, pointed to the floor and said, "see, here's your clutch". I looked around, that motor was being worked on (the junkyard motor), and I heard a whirring of either a grinder or a wire brush on a pneumatic tool. As I looked at that Dave rushed me out of the shop and into the front office where I said "what do you think the timetable is and what's the story if this clutch doesn't fix the problem?"
He looked like he wanted to cry. He was all red in the face, mumbled something about the EPA and the DEP on his case, employee problems, problems with his daughter, family issues, being there since 5 AM, having work being backed up, trying to get away for vacation and that he can't tell me anything because he is obviously having issues (all blurted out in less than 15 seconds).
I asked about the Porsche parts on the ground and the junkyard motor, he said he had a Porsche with a blown motor that he was working on. Funny though, I re-evaluated the property before I left, not a single Porsche of ANY KIND on the property or on the lifts other than mine in the bay downstairs......uh oh? That was like a knife in my stomach.
I left, I tried to think that it could all be my wild imagination and not really anything to do with me.....but how, why?
So, do I have it flat bedded immediately out of there to another shop? Do I go back with a witness? Do I go back with an attorney? Do I go back with a police officer? Do I forget about it all and wait more, longer and longer (going on over 70 days already)....
And, like I had said previously, this shop has an impeccable reputation, Zero complaints, nothing but Bentleys, Porsches, Lotuses, Lambos', Rolls, every high end car for years at the place, with nothing but the highest reputation...hence my choosing them to begin with.
I'm probably venting and might be too concerned, but the facts are the facts and what would one expect as a reasonable time to have a repair done, corrected,e tc., or is there more going on that maybe I don't know about?
It's like a bad dream.
Given the situation, I really don't know if I can ever have the level of confidence in the car after the motor has been removed multiple time with all of this work as stated in my previous posts, and feel comfortable that the car is reliable, correct, etc., or that I'm worse off than if I never had any work done to begin with.....(remember, I went in for an oil change and pro-actively chose to do the IMS bearing to be even more secure in the fact that if anything was wrong, needed to be done, etc., it would be addressed by doing that work as suggested), and now, here I am, close to $5,000 in the hole, not a clue as if any of my parts are replaced or swapped out with a junkyard motor, and all the items removed are laying in the ice and snow......
Thoughts?
(oh, and the reason the owner stated last week that he didn't know that my vibration issue was non-existent prior to him doing any work was most likely because he read these posts here, as I'm of the belief that he purchases parts from Pelican...I think, however, the mechanic who worked on the car and test drove it with me to verify the problem was well aware in our conversation that the problem was non-existent prior to any work).
I just want my car back, fixed, and the way it should be....

[guruuno]

February 18, 2014

I picked up my Porsche Boxster from the mechanic this Tuesday. Upon arriving, the owner was not available so I had to interface with the employees. They presented me the invoice I paid it. However I did question why the invoice the not show the flywheel or the second replacement of the clutch which the owner had indicated to me was work that he was going to do to assist in addressing and trying to solve the problem. I was told that the owner would have to revise it. He did and e-mailed it to me a day later. Unfortunately it still did not meet my expectations or requirements that I feel as though should have been included in the total bill. What I'm saying is that I was told that the flywheel was going to be replaced and I was only going to be charged for the cost of the flywheel and he would pay for the labor. Additionally he said that he would replace the clutch a second time at his expense. None of that information was included in the invoice yet the total amount of the invoice had a price of almost $1800 which included front engine mounts transmission mounts hydraulic valve cam cover seals and labor for testing.

So now, should I have to pay another mechanic to prove or disprove the incorrectly prepared invoice, lied about words, or just walk away and forget it all as a bad experience and never use or refer the guy again?

$5,000 later (proactive money spent), I now have a 3000-3200 RPM vibration that never existed before, and I'm told by many lawyers, I have to prove damages. Damages? You gotta love the good old USA. $250 to $750 per hour, $1,000's of dollars to prove somebody ripped me off, stole my money, and lied.

What is one to do?

[tonythetarga]

That's quite a tale. Sorry to hear about this. There area many excellent shops in Northern NJ it's a shame you didn't ask before you pulled the ripcord. Not a good way to start your Porsche ownership. Good luck to you.

edit...BTW...did you replace the motor mounts?

[guruuno]

OK, 2/18/14, picked up Boxster after 89 days!

Brief summary overview (not really sure if it’s going to be brief)

As all previous posts I’ve described my anxiety about the IMS issue, I chose to have the proactive work done.

Upon dropping off the vehicle on 8/17/13, the note I left for the owner went like this:
================================================== ==
As per conversation with David Graham, please perform the LN Engineering IMS Retrofit for my 2004 Porsche Boxster, also including additional work consisting of a new clutch, pressure plate and throw-out bearing, and rear main seal, as well as a brake fluid flush. I’d assume the oil change and filter is part of that specific service, which will also need to be done.
According to my research, I find that alternate providers of this service also include cam seals and Porsche approved updated chain tensioners. Please inform me if this is also included, recommended, or additionally please advise me of anything that should be considered doing while doing this service.
I am pro-actively doing this and am quite anal regarding things being done right, hence my choice of using your company for my Porsche service.
Also, as far as I can see, I have no issues, no oil leaks, nothing really wrong with the car, so I’m open minded to any observations you may have once on the lift.
Finally, last year when I had my car in for new tires and alignment, you also did something for A/C lines that were supposedly rattling over bumps. That issue still exists at times and has never really completely gone away and while the car is apart, maybe it might be a bit easier to resolve or address?
================================================== ==

Again, no need to rehash what I have previously posted here, but got car after that IMS + clutch, PP, etc. work was done (picked up from that project on 8/20/13), drove it for a bit (1,000 miles) and 500 miles the week after. Then on 11/15/13 was the day I felt that horrible rumble in the seat of my pants decelerating on an exit ramp. Took it in to the shop on 11/21 and the story is told in the previous posts here.

This is the current problem. Like I said, invoice shows work done, but no mention of the cost or reference to the dual mass flywheel (which I supposedly paid for parts, he the labor), or the second clutch (which he said he’d put in at his expense as he felt it was the only remaining item that might be an issue….like a possible bad clutch). I asked for a revised invoice reflecting these items, and was told, “it’ll show in Carfax, do you want that?” I want that, and disagree that repairs of this sort would show in Carfax, and he provides me the revised invoice, identical to the first, with a paragraph at the bottom stating, “Perform engine vent valve system absolute pressure test. Passed. Remove transmission and replace flywheel. No change. Remove and check both primary catalytic converters. No failure found. Remove transmission again and replace new clutch components again, no change.”

Why would I be told that I would have to pay for a new flywheel and it not be included in the invoice? No breakdown of costs, yet being charged an amount ($1,796.26) that had other totals to achieve the grand total, but not inclusive of the items I was told I’d need to pay for???? I’m paying for what?????

I guess the whole point is if it was not documented in the final invoice (the flywheel and 2nd clutch), how will I ever know if the work was really ever done? Especially because the vibration problem that never existed still exists after all the “supposed” work and expense.
Not a pleasant experience with this guy!
================================================== ==
Below are copies of all invoices:
(CAR IS NOW AT ANOTHER SHOP REVIEWING MY CONCERNS)

[guruuno]

March 5, 2014

After taking the car to another shop, the new repair shop (Bodymotion), has resolved my problems that took 89 days at Oldwick Village Garage without success.

3 key points I wish to share.

Bodymotion discovered that there was an exhaust bracket missing (ordered and installed)

The flywheel was the original (I was told by Oldwick that it was replaced with 2 different new ones that made no difference, so if indeed it was, the trans was pulled 4 different times by Oldwick, once to do it once, 2nd to do it twice, third to put the old one back and 4th to replace the clutch a 2nd time.) A tad far fetched in my book.

Finally, "Caveat emptor", Let the buyer beware.

Kudos to Bodymotion, without hesitation, I'd recommend them in a heartbeat, top shelf 100% flawless perfection.

Bodymotion invoice attached for conversation

[chamilun]

you can now take shop#1 to small claims court.