Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit

[paulesci]

I just purchsed a 2001 boxster s with 27,000 miles and I want to do the ims retrofit. Has anyone done the LN Eng Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit? This is the dual row bearing retro used to replace the original single row bearing. I think this design was recently released, so I am concerned about the testing/reliability for this new dual row bearing. Any install data or thoughts?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by paulesci

I just purchsed a 2001 boxster s with 27,000 miles and I want to do the ims retrofit. Has anyone done the LN Eng Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit? This is the dual row bearing retro used to replace the original single row bearing. I think this design was recently released, so I am concerned about the testing/reliability for this new dual row bearing. Any install data or thoughts?

This product is fairly new, and requires the use of an new type of installation tool, so there are very few of them about so far. On the whole, it looks like an interesting development, however those with single row bearings are also looking at the Solution, which is a better (if more expensive) option.

[mikefocke]

Given that dual row bearings so seldom fail (have there been any not associated with installation snafus or installation in a contaminated engine?), how is 'the solution' better that the Pro dual row for the average person who might keep the car 4-5 years? Granted that the Pro is different that the dual row used in dual row engines in load bearing capacity. But if the Pro has 50% more, then it projects to 60k miles.

I found I had 3 sports cars before marriage and 2 after kids were out of school and I noticed how my 4 year old cars at the time of purchase had both already had 2 owners. Same as many cars in ads I've read. From this I judge that the average P-car ownership is not long enough to justify "the solution". Sure, there are people who intend to keep em forever and for those, heck yea.

JFP, what think you re this reasoning?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

Given that dual row bearings so seldom fail (have there been any not associated with installation snafus or installation in a contaminated engine?), how is 'the solution' better that the Pro dual row for the average person who might keep the car 4-5 years? Granted that the Pro is different that the dual row used in dual row engines in load bearing capacity. But if the Pro has 50% more, then it projects to 60k miles.

I found I had 3 sports cars before marriage and 2 after kids were out of school and I noticed how my 4 year old cars at the time of purchase had both already had 2 owners. Same as many cars in ads I've read. From this I judge that the average P-car ownership is not long enough to justify "the solution". Sure, there are people who intend to keep em forever and for those, heck yea.

JFP, what think you re this reasoning?

Obviously, the choice is dependent upon your time horizon and/or budget; but if you are looking at it from the perspective of how long is it going to last, or how bullet resistant is it, the Solution is the obvious choice. People that flip their cars every couple years tend to ignore the issue entirely or depend upon the factory or aftermarket warranties and CPO's, those that intend to keep the car for a bit longer look at it entirely differently. From what I have seen, which one also plays into resale.

[paulesci]

Perhaps LN Engineering can provide some feedback on the number of SRP Ims Retrofits have been installed? How long/mileage they have been running and what type of testing the bearing went through prior to release. I want to perform the LN Eng bearing retrofit, but I do not want to be the first car running the new bearing. My current oem bearing is showing no problems, so this is preventive maintenance. Maybe I need to wait a few months to get some in the field data. Any feedback from current users or LN Eng would be great.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by paulesci

Perhaps LN Engineering can provide some feedback on the number of SRP Ims Retrofits have been installed? How long/mileage they have been running and what type of testing the bearing went through prior to release. I want to perform the LN Eng bearing retrofit, but I do not want to be the first car running the new bearing. My current oem bearing is showing no problems, so this is preventive maintenance. Maybe I need to wait a few months to get some in the field data. Any feedback from current users or LN Eng would be great.

If you want feed back on LN Engineering products, drop and email to Charles Navarro who owns the firm. I'm sure he will provide you with whatever information is available. LN, by-the-by, does not introduce new products without a lot of testing first, just the way they do things.

[mikefocke]

Lots of what Flat6 and LN do is patented and that generally takes a year or more. During that time some of the engines that come through their shop just might have had their owners offered a choice of the dual-single under a "don't talk about it". I haven't seen anyone on the forums talking about their experience either positive or negative.

[White, Walter]

I have been looking at the single to double row conversion with great interest. I was curious though. One picture, the picture on the advertisement cover page, appears to be an 8 roller per row bearing. But other pictures appear to be 9 roller per rows. It is hard to tell exactly the roller count.

[Jay Laifman]

I am about to change my original clutch on a 95,000 mile 2000 Boxster S. It seems that there is a chance it has original double row in there - though I'm not sure yet. Mike mentions low failure rate on the original double row. If I get in there and find that it is an original double row, and no indication of damage, is it still suggested that I replace it? Or just leave it alone? That is, why fix what is not broken? Or at almost 100,000 miles, is it only a matter of time in the near future?

[rfuerst911sc]

There are two ends of the IMS shaft......the end with the infamous IMS bearing and then " the other end " . You never hear ANY issues with " the other end " and the reason is Porsche basically supports that end with the IMS solution type of bearing. It basically is no different than cam or connecting rod bearings being supported by clean filtered oil. It is a fix it once solution. And it is the most expensive. When I was having mine done the solution was the only one I wanted but I tend to hang onto cars for a long time and my S is no exception. Plus if I do plan on ever selling that IMS Solution placard on the door jamb has real resale value to anyone in the know.
I have met Jake Raby ( inventor ) many times he is a straight shooter as honest as the day is long. I have met Charles Nevarro ( manufacturer ) several times and between the two they will NOT release a product for sale without very thorough testing. Two great guys with a passion to make our cars better. I have no dog in this hunt just a very happy customer.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Jay Laifman

I am about to change my original clutch on a 95,000 mile 2000 Boxster S. It seems that there is a chance it has original double row in there - though I'm not sure yet. Mike mentions low failure rate on the original double row. If I get in there and find that it is an original double row, and no indication of damage, is it still suggested that I replace it? Or just leave it alone? That is, why fix what is not broken? Or at almost 100,000 miles, is it only a matter of time in the near future?

The dual row bearing is the strongest unit, but the OEM version is not immune to failing. As most of the cost in doing an RMS/IMS update is in tearing the car apart, it makes little sense, economic or otherwise, not to change it while you are in there. You will both sleep easier, and not have to take the car apart for a second time at a latter date.

[Jay Laifman]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

I've read the LN instructions and the Pelican instructions. I wish the LN instructions had some pictures! The only thing that worries me is the cam slippage. I have the 5 chain version, which apparently has less of a concern. But, what I don't see from any write up is just how much movement is bad. So If I scribe a line to match up to the cam, are we talking it better be exact to the degree, or if it moves 1 degree, is that just slight movement, which will move right back? Or 2 or 3 degrees? It sounds like in the blink of an eye this can go from a relatively simple task to a disaster needing expensive, special tools.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Jay Laifman

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

I've read the LN instructions and the Pelican instructions. I wish the LN instructions had some pictures! The only thing that worries me is the cam slippage. I have the 5 chain version, which apparently has less of a concern. But, what I don't see from any write up is just how much movement is bad. So If I scribe a line to match up to the cam, are we talking it better be exact to the degree, or if it moves 1 degree, is that just slight movement, which will move right back? Or 2 or 3 degrees? It sounds like in the blink of an eye this can go from a relatively simple task to a disaster needing expensive, special tools.

First of, ignore the Pelican instructions and stick to the letter with the LN methodology; they developed and perfected the way to do a carefree retrofit, regardless of how many chains the engine has. If you follow the LN set, and use their tools set, nothing will move. That cannot be said for other methods. I would also not be using steel replacement bearing, or substituting a single row replacement with spacers for an OEM dual row; all single row bearings are more problem plagued than dual rows.

[Jay Laifman]

Thanks. Those appear to be very good words of wisdom. Now the question is if anyone local to me happens to have the tools and wants to rent/sell them!

And of course, I need to pull the tranny to see what bearings I actually have in there to order the right kit.


Thanks again,
Jay

[Jay Laifman]

Can someone confirm if I can remove the shaft/bearing cover to see what clip holds in my bearing to determine whether I have the double or single bearing without having locked everything in place with the LN tool, etc.?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Jay Laifman

Can someone confirm if I can remove the shaft/bearing cover to see what clip holds in my bearing to determine whether I have the double or single bearing without having locked everything in place with the LN tool, etc.?

ABSOLUTELY NOT! First of all, you do not need to remove the IMS cover flange to see which version it is; the difference between the single and dual row covers is pronounced. Secondly, before removing the flange cover, the engine MUST, be locked at TDC, and the cams MUST be locked with a holding tool, otherwise the engine will jump time and you will be is serious trouble...............

[Jay Laifman]

Just got the flywheel off. Yep. I found the page in the Pelican 101 Boxster book that shows them both. I have the dual row.

I'm thinking now to leave it alone. I know you guys said that as long as I'm in there. But at the same time, in reading the instructions and the various stern warnings from LN and Jake - and reading their 2 page terse instructions that presupposes a bunch of knowledge about the Boxster engine, I feel like there is also a lot to go wrong by doing it - and I'd have to ask a lot of questions to understand the full meaning of their instructions (unless a more detailed version comes with the tools and bearing).

I've been working on cars for 35+ years. I've never had an issue in following instructions and accomplishing anything. It's just that my dad's age old advice to not fix something that is not broken is coming through - especially since I have the 2 row that apparently has a pretty good success rate, and perhaps no more at risk than any other part of the engine.

[Jay Laifman]

FYI, I ordered the new LN bearing and tools from Pelican.

Thanks again for the input.

[Chuck W.]

Originally Posted by Jay Laifman

FYI, I ordered the new LN bearing and tools from Pelican.

Thanks again for the input.

Be sure to let us know how your bearing looked. Good luck with the install. I am betting you will have no problem with it.

[Jay Laifman]

I now have the LN double bearing replacement for my double bearing. I've read its instructions, as well as the Pelican Parts instructions (Pelican Technical Article: Boxster Intermediate Shaft Bearing Replacement and Upgrade (IMS) - 986 Boxster (1997-04) - 987 Boxster (2005-06) well as watched the 996 video online: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAxj6FKMzvM

Here are some questions:

(1) LN says to put the engine at TDC. On my 911 or other cars, I know how to turn the crank to line up TDC and match the rotor to the mark on the distributor or observe the valves to see if I'm actually at TDC. How does one do it on the Boxster? Is it to align the mark on the pulley and confirm that the upper and lower cam slots are both vertical?

(2) LN says "Lock camshaft in head with tensioner accessed from underside of engine, closest to flywheel." Which one is this and how is it "locked"? Neither the PP or video do this, or seem to anyway.

(3) LN says only "remove hub flange." Fortunately PP makes it very clear how to do that. PP also explains how to use LN's bearing puller much better than LN. PP also fills in LN's missing details on how to use LN's installer, including that the nut is not just removed, but reattached to hold the bearing to the installer. Sure, somewhat obvious - but why omit it from the instructions?

(4) When you have the frozen bearing and tool ready to go, does it also help to have warmed/heated up the back of the engine to expand the receptacle for the bearing to make even more space between it and the frozen/shrunken bearing?

(5) LN says when you are ready to install the bearing "ensure that you have first pushed the intermediate shaft so that the other end is resting fully on the oil pump console." What does that mean? Neither PP nor the video mention this or show it. Is it just to push on the shaft until it stops?

(6) PP says to put in a spacer when putting in the double bearing. The LN instructions does not say this. However, there seems to be a spacer in the kit from LN. Is this a spacer I should use, or is this a replacement spiro-loc? I'm assuming I'll see that is what it is when I pull out the old one, and that the spacer PP mentions is when installing their single bearing replacement for the double bearing. But, I just want to confirm.

(7) Is there any reason that it would be beneficial to ALSO do the set screws that PP suggests to hold everything even better?

Thanks!