Mike Moffit is at Schiit in Santa Clarita, maybe you could reach him there and he might know someone.

Thanks but I already asked him and their response is that they only service "Schiit" products :(

Sunday Chill SmileWavy

#cardasaudio

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My Music Cave!
 

Its been a decades long journey and I have enjoyed and sometimes suffered the ride.

I have just completed the audio treatments of my room (5th dedicated listening room in my life). I have also restored most of my vintage stuff (looking for a shop to restore my Theta Transport and to update my spare servo controller – suggestions?) and added new components. Now just left to tinker with speaker positioning some more and enjoy the music.

My room is multi purpose with 2 separate systems. Acoustical treatments by Seven Audio in Poland

For audio: Infinity IRS Betas, Threshold 12e and Manley Snappers, ZLC transformer, ALLNIC L-6500, Sony ES SACD+CD, Theta Data Transport, DACs: Theta Gen V Pro and Topping D90SE and a Wiim Pro streamer.

For movies: Denon AVR, Cambridge Frt and Rr, Snell Center and sides, Sunfire Signature Subs (2), AWOL UST with 120"screen

For playing (I’m a horrible player): various acoustic (Taylor, Ovation, Takamine, Papa Jack) 6 and 12 string, Carvin Soprano Spanish guitar and electric. Pedals/processor and a 2x12 cabinet

Secondary system (office): Aerial 8b, Lexicon MC-1, Sherbourn amps, Sony ES CD

Bunch of stuff I plan to sell including Nakamichi Dragon, Sony DAT deck, …http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1680532619.jpg
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I think it was Lombardi who said "Winning is a habit. So is losing." When it comes to achieving goals, you don't mess around. In sound reproduction and in driving. And who knows what else.....

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Just getting into this. The Apple Music with the hi-res audio is pretty good.

Slippery slope, Chuck. Viking can tell you. In audio systems, chasing perfection is a long and expensive journey. Fun. And never-ending. Viking has settled on a system, or systems, that he likes and I have done the same, but we also know improvement is still possible.

Very nice! Johnny Darko just did a piece on treatments for a new place of his https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_tkCEiWLuM. Your wall treatments look just like some he used. How do you like the change with the treatments?

THANKS! Humbled Mr Man of Carbon Fiber!

Yes it is! I'm using more Qobuz than Apple or Amazon HD. Give it a shot.

I agree, like on most everything else in life, but the law of diminishing returns applies.

In my current system I wonder if "bits are bits" and how much can I improve with a different "premium" streamer and what about other DACS.

But it sounds so good I am rediscovering a lot of music and gaining more appreciation for my dad's favorites.

ErVikingo, Nice AV room.

John used Vicoustic treatments from Portugal. Very nice products represented in the USA by FOCAL Naim. Pricewise, Vicoustic is multiples of what Seven Audio charges.

More importantly, Seven Audio did custom matching on the wood and finishes on my speakers. I highly recommend them:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19aZoeP30pjFOm4WT8vVlN9DVOVP9TdjT/view

I built the room as close to the ideal "golden ratio" (width being 1.6 of height and length 2.6 my room is 1.27 and 2.55) but the home's layout didn't allow for the perfect ratio. As such, the need to control low frequencies (diffusion in my book is always needed for a great soundstage).

I purchased all treatments at once but installed them in stages to see how the room was changing. I started with diffusers on the rear walls which cleared up the width of the soundstage. Then the diffuser/absorbers on the side walls which did wonders for a very defined and ample soundstage. Speakers have totally disappeared!

After that, came the bass traps on the rear corners which had some impact in giving a tight bass response, then the front bass traps. Full stop there, as you have seen I have plenty of low frequencies from the Betas, they are servo controlled but now bass is much more musical, bass drums are tight, cellos and bass are clear.

Last to install were the ceiling "cloud" diffusers/absorbers which are installed 13" (diffuser surface) from the ceiling. Can't tell how much these did to control standing waves but being that they are located at primary and secondary reflection points, they complete a very well defined soundstage.

Following are links to a couple of videos taken from my iPhone 14 Pro. Not ideal but put some headphones on and listen to this and please give me some feedback.

Nils Lofgren: https://share.icloud.com/photos/01ef_g1R-VQPGm90qoY05J9EA

Steven Wilson's Regret #9: https://share.icloud.com/photos/0cfEw-YfHPXvZfzu_66T4OO2A

Ben Harper: https://share.icloud.com/photos/0c6J5gMC9gm_QRzlYSb_I9Erw

SRV: https://share.icloud.com/photos/04fNS_9pqhQQVItP-Jz4gGoog

thanks!

Probably most here will po po DMLs.
Anyone try making a pair of DMLs and testing them?
Generally the bass is not very good, but a woofer added might solve that.
Seems like a fun project coupled with a low cost Type D amp. This would be for the garage.
E.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs3vv_90iPA
Tech Ingredients had a good series also on Youtube.

DML's I have listened make sound but IMHO not with the clarity we get with other types of drivers.

My little pick up truck has them on the "bed audio" package and the are great for tailgating sound.

I think that, for your application (garage audio) it will be cheaper to get regular speakers. Cool sounding project though...!

okay, I'm back to provide more stupid questions.
A couple of days ago I visited a friend I ride with that is an audiophile (I didn't know he was until very recently). Over the years he has spent more than I could imagine and I didn't ask.
He has three different setups in three different listening areas/rooms. He played some music we both like and the speakers disappear. I think that's supposed to be good. I can hear each instrument and sounds of e.g. fingers touching the strings. In any case....now I'm thinking of putting together a multi speaker system to replace my cheap sound bar.

So far it seems it is recommended to concentrate on the speakers to start with. I don't want to spend a wad of money before seeing if this might be a hobby....
I have two paths I'm considering:
1 - buy used speakers and fix them up if needed (driver not working or needs a better crossover)
2 - DIY speakers with a well know and proven design

I don't think the amp is a big deal just get more than enough power for 4 ohms and have the various HDMI inputs e.g. eARC/etc./etc.


FWIW- I've been reading about null testing of speaker wire, amps, etc. I come from the electronics industry so I believe that sort of stuff. As I understand some audiophiles don't believe in various types of measurement technology.

That's the update for now. I suppose many here are well past all of this. I appreciate any comments.

hcoles, Just purchase good quality used speakers, that will work well in the available room size, small room stick with smaller speakers, larger room both small and large speakers will work well.

The speakers will determine the requirements of the amplifier.

What size is the room you are thinking of using?

The whole room is about 28' x 18' but we use 2/3s of it for the TV viewing area. The ceiling is vaulted. The TV viewing area is about 18'x18'.

With 28 x 18 that will work well with any size speaker and also sound good. How loud do you intend on playing music? How much do you want to spend?

Maybe up to around 85db on rare occasions. I'm hoping to find a used receiver for under $400 and maybe spend $1k on a speaker kit that might include a center channel.

I'm surprised that others have not suggested anything yet, my pick would be for something like a used pair of Totem Acoustic model 1 or model 1 signature, another similar would be Merlin music TSM. Both are mini monitor speakers so would require stands. The larger Totem Hawk or Merlin VSM are also excellent though the VSM will likely be harder to find for your price point. I do not think you will need the centre channel speaker, these speakers will cover it. The one likely add on for later could be a good subwoofer.

Anyone interested in a Sunfire Pre-amp? Theater Grand

I've also got a Sunfire Cinema Grand 5 x 200 watt amp too

$1000 for the pair, we can split shipping from zip 98294.

PM me if interested.


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Jbl studio series are good speakers and are often 50% on the jbl website. Tough to beat in entry level high quality speakers

Parts express and madisound have some decent kit options

Not sure your exact needs, but if i didn't already have fancy speakers, id be in the market for active amplifed dsp controled speakers from the likes of genelec, neumann, jbl, etc.

Lastly be extremely skeptical of anything read on audiofile websites. Audio science review is mostly decent.

I would recommend a B&K AVR 307

You’ve got a pretty big room. That’s good, but I would suggest a full range speaker, not a monitor speaker. In fact, the first thing I would do is take a look at the room, and what’s in it, and how willing you are to prioritize speaker and listener placement over all of the other functions for the room. Virtually everything we normally use a room for is bad for any serious stereo listening.

Back to the speakers, I would not buy a DIY speaker kit, I’d buy a set of quality used speakers from the last 10-20 years or so. Something from a brand with a good reputation and new enough that speaker cones and capacitors and that sort of thing or not going to be an issue yet. Old enough that they, and the parts in them, didn’t come from China. A $1000 budget will buy you something worth listening to. I would skip the center speaker and any thoughts of using the system for TV sound.

I would suggest a two channel amp, not a receiver. If you want to listen to radio, get a separate tuner.

Have fun.

Now that we know the size of your room, what are the constraints on placing speakers.

Great speakers mounted against a wall sound ok to awful. Mid fi speakers away from room boundaries sound pretty well.

So what am I saying, tell us where your wife will allow you to place your speakers and we can give you some suggestions.

.... and what budget do you have in mind?

I wouldn't say that measurements are not a good idea, but rather than measurements do not necessarily equate to sound quality. Equipment can measure similar and sound different. You want to find what is pleasing to you, if measurements are part of that process, great!

Or are you talking about measuring the sound from the system and using processing to tweak the sound? If so, still great!

Jason Stoddard's (of Schiit) take on use of the term balanced, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-17518152. I am not an EE so most of it is Greek, but I am sure there are many here who can full enjoy.

So Java, why not a monitor speaker? I am quite sure there are no full range speakers that have the detail and sound quality of the Totem Model one sig or the Merlin TSM, anywhere near that price range, that I can think of, he is not after high SPL, though most would be surprised how loud these small high perf speakers can go. Have you actually listened to the above speakers? Many of the better full range speakers are just a mini monitor sitting above a separate base cab, such as Wilson Watt/Puppy, Sasha or B&W 800 series to mention a few.

I have nothing against that particular set of speakers, and I have not listened to them myself. My comments were based on my experience with other smaller speakers in large rooms. I’m guessing the bass drivers in those are probably 6 1/2 inch. I’ve had some B&W speakers, and others, with driver sizes like that and I just don’t get enough range out of them.

Nothing wrong with Canadian speakers. My personal favorites would probably be a pair of Energy Veritas, V2.8’s. I’ve seen those sell for as little as $1500. That would stretch his thousand dollar budget but it would be a stretch worth making.

There are dozens of r great monitor sized speakers. People often love small limited range speakers because it is nearly impossible to get well integrated bass without EQ, Room treatment, measurments, careful placement.

In the last audible octave in the audible range for domestic sized rooms, the speaker is playing the room. The wavelengths are longer than the dimensions of the room. If you just ditch the last octave you aren't missing all that much musically and avoid the risk of muddying up the more important part of the spectrum.

The Merlin's were made in the USA, unfortunately no longer produced but service still available. The longer floor standing models (Totem Hawk or Merlin VSM) can actually reproduce pretty decent accurate low freq.

Yes something like the Veritas V2.8 would be excellent but likely pretty hard to find a pair for near the price point, but never know.

All the smaller B&W that I have listened to were lacking any low frequency, I think it is just the British way, I have a pair of old Harbeth acoustic that are the same way.

There are deals to be had out there, if you are vigilant. Personally, I wouldn’t set an arbitrary limit on what I might spend on a basic system. And the speakers are probably the most important part of the equation.

Some would say the most important part is the room, and they would be right, but that’s usually something we’re stuck with. Band-Aids for that are available…

Which is why we have been asking for pictures of the room. It would be nice if we could also get a written affidavit from the wife, stating that she will not stand in the way of audio excellence.

Budget
 

Yes, the room. I've been watching countless Youtubes and the room keeps coming up. Speaker placement/etc. As a side note - what about using Roon? Seems like a good way to get pieces of music and not have to deal with CDs/etc. I'm slowly working on the wife to get permission for speaker placement. :-)

I’ve never downloaded a piece of music in my life, so it would have no utility for me. I suppose it depends on whether you have already amassed a large collection of digital music and whether that collection is in a file format that is worthy of serious listening. It might be useful if you want to distribute music throughout the house, but that implies you have other equipment to do that with. From what I understand, Roon is just software, you have to supply your own equipment to work with it.

I prefer physical media. CDs mainly but I still play Vinyl and cassettes.

I dont use Roon. I find that if you dont have a large library of music on a NAS its of limited use (YMMV).

I like SACD, DVDA, CD and stream from Qobuz and Amazon HD.

Currently using a Wiim Pro digital coax to a ChiFi DAC (Topping D90SE). Very convenient interface and its bit accurate out on the digital. The Topping is very accurate and musical.