I listen about 50% youtube concert videos (tiny desk concerts and the like), just have toslink from tv to digital preamp and 49.5% Tidal streaming through Blusound node with digital coax to pre.

0.5% LPs when the mood strikes.

Roon is more about network and multiple systems and storage and streaming services. Most users seem to love the interface but I have never used it. Tidal native interface is crap but good enough. BluOS is pretty decent for HMI.

Thanks, I was looking at Amazon. You have to pay for the upgrade to get control and be able to skip tracks above a certain limit. I guess this avoids having to set up a NAS.

I pay for Amazon HD but find myself using it less since I subscribed to Qobuz (thus might drop amazon).

When looking at streamers, check and see which platforms they support. To me the decision was down to bit perfect output (I prefer outboard DAC), platform support and user interface

I'm new to this... re. Qobuz how does it work? E.g. I go on the site using my laptop and select music and/or build lists of music and then "stream" it to my AVR? Is there any special function the AVR needs other than the RJ45 connector?
Thanks.

Qobuz is similar to Amazon, TIDAL, etc. App based you can purchase (download) and stream (depending on the subscription level you sign up for).

Amazon is friendlier for discovery of new music but Qobuz has more high Res contents.

If your AVR has streaming capabilities and its compatible with Qobuz its easy. Plug in, sign up and enjoy. The problem with streaming as that not all platforms are compatible with all hardware.

The friendlier ones are BluOs (used on Node and NAD - related companies) and IMHO the Wiim app.

It seems there are streaming devices that can be plugged into a receiver. They may have digital or pre-amp level output. I'm finding various streaming services:
- Tidal
- Qobuz
- Amazon High Def.
- Spotify (have gone to 16 bit and 44kHz)
Not sure if a given streaming device can handle more than one of these services.

Denon and others have a built in streamer (HEOS) which is good if you are not interested in an outboard DAC.

Yes devices handle multiple sources!

Yeah most of them handle most of them if that makes sense.

Bluesound node is very user friendly and the app works well with all of those. As a device it is overpriced but if you want to hit the easy switch it works well and is built nicely.

The Wiim device is much cheaper and is still pretty easy to use as well.

You can get creative with raspberry pie's or a cajillion other ways as well. Ive had Tidal for so long I am sticking with it but would probably sign up for Qobuz otherwise.

Do I need to have a local storage device or can I use e.g. Amazon, Spotify or ? as the storage? I guess having local storage provides faster response. ??

Dont need local storage, music is streamed directly from service. Uou just need internet capable of the data rate which is a very low bar these days

I still prefer CDs. Streaming is like FM radio, OK for background music while I’m doing something else. For instance, this might be helpful:

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/video/discover/audio-bitrate.html

Okay, good. Thanks.

Tidal qobuz and others have cd or better fidelity

“Better fidelity” doesn’t matter if the source material isn’t better.

Streaming is nothing like FM radio. Sound quality that rivals CD, an endless choice of music, genres, playlists, etc. About 70% of my listening is streamed on a BluSound Node to a Denefrips DAC.

If you’re streaming via Bluetooth, you’re doing it wrong. Get a proper streamer controlled by a proper interface (BluOS or Roon) and access stream direct from router (ideally hard wired via Cat 6 or 7 cable). CD’s rarely see the transport anymore.

Not all streaming is the same.

I’m old-school. CDs.

Now, that I understand. But don’t underestimate the versatility of a good streaming setup. I’ve found more great music by simply running an acoustic jazz (for example) play list and sitting back and enjoying. Something you dislike comes up, just touch the arrow on your iPad. Here’s one I’d have never known about…Snorre Kirk (jazz drummer). I’ve since bought two of his albums on vinyl (I’m even older School).

Enjoy.

This brings up the question....re. e.g. Spotify.
I understand they now provide an upgraded quality. I think CD quality 16bit , 44.1kHz.
Did they go back to the original high quality file or some how convert the lower resolution files they were already serving?

I have a raspberry pi as a server with a small 1Tb drive. Some 60,000 songs are on the drive. We are mostly CD folks and I FLAC every new CD uncompressed and put it on the drive. It has been working great for years. The pi software (picoreplayer) is free and works great as a server, player and/or both. Very quick to setup. HiFiBerry DAC cards are used if a player. The newest pis are fast and responsive. Several players are served this way...outside music, main traditional stereo, three Sonos players...all on the network. They can be selectively synch'd so the sound throughout is seamless. The pi server will also stream from several services.

Perfect! Seamless background music!

:D

I've been using the BlueSound Node 2i (previous generation) for a few years now and really like it. The SW is always being upgraded to improve things or incorporate new features. It handles all of the streaming services and internet radio stations plus can handle local or networked storage of files. The only file format it doesn't play natively is DSF or DXD (SACD file format). And it will decode MQA if you use the internal DAC. I'm using the internal DAC output to my processor but I'm looking for an external DAC to pair with it.

@Chocaholic which Denafrips DAC are you using with your BlueSound?

Of course i was careful with my words, these services dont downsample and then transmit redbook if your settings are right

Mqa on tidal is basically bs

Plenty of audiophile pay for 24bit music that is simply resampled and no better that the 16bit 44khz master


The point is to say streaming is a compromise over cd is not correct for anybody who uses any care for streaming.

Lots of steps between the source and the sound that you have to be concerned with when streaming.

With CDs, the path can be as simple as a CD player and an amplifier.

My 60-something year old brain enjoys simplicity these days.

Pontus ll.

Why not take the A to D conversion, then the D to A conversion out of it completely? Pure analog from the guitar string to your ears. Play a record.

Vinyl doesn’t have the dynamic range of a CD and so adjustments are made in the recording process to effectively “dumb down” the signal. That’s why vinyl sounds warm. It lacks extension on the high-end, as well as on the bottom end.

I would imagine that modern music is recorded digitally, but what do I know?

Plus, it sucks to have to get up out of your chair and change sides every few minutes.

If you really want to go vintage, dig out your old TEAC real to reel and have at it. See park up a cigar with your old Dunhill and think back to when we were really on top of the world.

I will see your vintage eight track deck and raise you, with a vintage cassette deck.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1682789992.jpg

True drama last year when mfsl divulged there expensive all analog records were sometimes mixed digitally. The mastering equipment probably had 24bit depth and 100khz sampling so 100s of times better than the vinyl can record, the human ear can discern, and at the fundamental limits of electronic recording, yet there were still a bunch of angry snob o philes

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/mobile-fidelity-scandal

A well done lossy encoded 320kbs mp3 or aac file is hard to reliably differentiate from cd. You better have good headphones, a good base reccording, and probably young ears.


Speakers and rooms are an order of magnitude worse than electronics

Nothing worse than an argument between audiophiles.

In spite of all science to the contrary the audiophiles argue for more than the 16/44.1 and buy $349 AC power cable B24 from GR.

You guys are great, I've learned a lot from this thread. Now I want to put together a good system. But not an expensive system. Here's my plan:

Input through a vintage mixer/preamp that outputs to two monoblock amplifiers cobbled together from salvage Hammond Organs (A0-29 tube) that will drive two pairs of 12" Alnico speakers (old but good condition- one pair ribbed, one pair smooth, also out of salvage organs). Speakers are 8 ohm with each pair wired in parallel.

These parts are readily available and not much $.

I think I can hear the laughter already, but what do you think?

I admire your enthusiasm, but I don’t think that would be a very good system. The speakers might be good in an organ, or in a guitar amp, but I don’t think they would make very good full range speakers.

Looks like a great project. Keep us posted.

What are the options to have active crossover on right and left speakers using an AVR?
E.g.:
1 - put active crossover between the R (right) pre-out and a channel input, same for the L (left) and use bi-amping.
2 - put an active crossover on the speaker wire going to the speakers
Thanks.

Active crossovers are usually between the source and the amplifier. Usually intended for multiple amp setup, one amp for mid and high frequency and one for the low freq, or can be more amplifiers if split three ways.

Edit, most AVR have the ability to limit the the low frequency sent to the main speakers, used with a subwoofer, this helps take some load off the amplifier driving the main speakers. To add an additional external crossover and another amplifier would not be the best use of funds, better to just spend that on better main speakers if you want better sound quality. Electronic (active) crossover and multiple amps can give better sound quality especially at high volume but at a much higher cost.

You put it before the AVR; in the past you could have placed it on the Tape Loop. And it wont be as much an active crossover as a DSP unit.

If you want an active crossover, the affordable ones will input and output line level.

Look at Minidsp. For example https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-24

Well, I can discern differences in 16/4 and 24/192 sources. Power cables are another story.

I find it interesting that power comes in Romex to the outlet, then a 1-2 meter power cord will improve on that but then goes through a sh_tty fuse (that's another discussion) to the trafos on the amps. But IMHO the potential improvements come from improved contact surface on the plugs and more importantly for the shielding they provide close to the equipment.

Full disclosure, I have hospital grade breakers, isolated ground outlets and a massive power supply to the equipment.

Breaker and outlets since it was a scratch built home so why not and the massive power supply to address ground loops and to give more especially to the pair of tube amps (my twin solid state amps have massive reserves - twin 1200VA toroidal transformers (short-term capable of twice that)).

Its interesting that my outlets read 123V which progressively drops as I turn on power amps until it settles at 114V. Seems to me that I have contact issues on the outlet or the breaker.

On my old house, lights would dim with big bass sounds.

ErVikingo, He did ask about an active crossover, you would not put that in front of the AVR, in front of the amplifier section.

Yes trying to get the AC power to be clean can be a pain, I have five 2.4KVA ultra isolation transformers waiting for me to start building my AV room.

You are correct... but the active cross overs I know go before the amps. He is using a receiver thus no outboard amps. Had he said he was using a PreAmp I would have said after the pre/before the power amps. Thus my comment about a tape loop