Wood Sander

[Instrument 41]

I am putting Black Walnut with a live edge in one of my bathrooms and then American Walnut Butcher Block in the kitchen. I'm using a product called Water Lox. With this product you sand once then build layer upon layer with no sanding. I am looking for a really good sander that will get me the best surface on this wood. So those with experience, what type of sander do you recommend?

[cabmandone]

I have never done what you're suggesting but I'd think a variable speed orbital sander would be the best option. A picture of the pieces you're working with would help too. If it's rough cut you might have to have it sent through a planer.

[MBAtarga]

Most any ROS (Random Orbital Sander) will do the job. Porter Cable is a good brand. Most importantly is the sandpaper grit - stick with a good brand such as Nortons or 3M.

[javadog]

Consult the Water Lox web site. They have a bunch of products, you don't specify which one you're using, and they will probably have directions for each one.

You can sand to a too fine finish, as well as not fine enough, depending on what you're doing with wood. Water-based finished might need a finer grit. You can also close off the grain by sanding it too fine.

I'd probably hand sand it.

[Instrument 41]

Hand sand?? WAY too much surface area for that.

[tevake]

A belt sander follow by a random orbital. Got to deside early if you are shooting for a totally flat machined surface, or retain some texture of the grain/ hand finished look.

Here is a thread on a live edge slab I finished for a window desk.
With Lots of useful info from the brain trust here.

Black walnut is a beautiful wood, enjoy the project!

Cheers Richard

wood finishing questions

[Reg]

Waterlox is Tung Oil based. The original finish has quite the odor but settles down over time. I hand sanded between coats. You may want to take the slab through a wide belt sander at a shop and then use a 'ROS' to finish it off.

[LWJ]

Funny. I have water lox on my oak floor. It's great stuff.

As for the wood, I believe a scraper is supposed to be the best possible finish.

As an FYI, Waterlox won't give a glass finish. I did something like 120 on my floors. If the sanding marks are gone, you are fine.

[tevake]

In thinking more about your project, the current surface is a big determinant of the tools needed to bring it to the point for applying finish.

Has it been put thru a planner? Is it close to the surface you want?

The slab that I used in the desk in the thread that I linked to you, it had been cut with an Alaskan mill using a chian saw. So it needed a lot of surface work to bring it to a surface that I could put finish on it.

Do you have any pics of the piece that you are working with, Id love to see before and after pics.

I currently have a nice raw slab about 8' by 28" at my place in fla, planning to finish it for a counter top shortly.

Cheers Richard

[daepp]

I am in escrow to purchase a home with quite a bit of walnut counter tops. I'm curious - anyone have any experience with these? Instrument - how will you keep them nice as they are used?

[drcoastline]

The Waterlox YouTube video indicates sand to 150 for their original formula. Your container should provide final sanding grit prior to applying your finish. In general you want to sand out all rough scratches so they are not highlighted by the finish. Personally I would go a bit higher, 180 maybe 220. But then again it depends on what finish you are trying to achieve. Like Richard I would like to know a little more about your project.

[Instrument 41]

My last house I used Water Lox on the butcher block counter tops. I didn't want a glossy finish but more a satin finish. This will be the same for the bathroom using Black Oak. In the previous house it was sanded for me and smooth enough, this go round its all me. Thats why the questions about sanders. I will have it put through a planner but concerned about the live edge in doing that. The slabs are 2" thick and my total space is 24 x 72. The Water Lox I used was there standard formula then followed up with a Satin finish. After 2 years of doing nothing to the surface it still looked awesome and that butcher block was tough as nails.

[javadog]

If I were you, I would sand and finish a test piece before committing to doing the big one. If you don't have an extra sample, finish an area of the bottom or an edge where you won't see it.

Hand sanding is indeed a pain, but I've never liked the finish I get with a random orbital sander.

[1990C4S]

If you are looking for a decent quality sander I would recommend Porter Cable, I have several of them and they are all very good for the price. Buy the 4", not the 3" if you get a belt sander.

I agree with the comment the random orbit never leave a satisfactory finish, but that tool might be useful as an intermediate step.

For top quality: Festool.

I strongly suggest you get some sample pieces to experiment on....and cover the walnut with Formica or plywood until you have a process you're comfortable with....

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by Instrument 41

My last house I used Water Lox on the butcher block counter tops. I didn't want a glossy finish but more a satin finish. This will be the same for the bathroom using Black Oak. In the previous house it was sanded for me and smooth enough, this go round its all me. Thats why the questions about sanders. I will have it put through a planner but concerned about the live edge in doing that. The slabs are 2" thick and my total space is 24 x 72. The Water Lox I used was there standard formula then followed up with a Satin finish. After 2 years of doing nothing to the surface it still looked awesome and that butcher block was tough as nails.

The live edge won't be an issue with the surface planner as you will be planning the face of the wood not the edge. You will loose some of your 2" thickness but a surface planner is infinitely adjustable so you can plane off 1/64" or less. Rather than plane in one pass set the planner to the bare minimum it will cut and make two or three passes until you are satisfied with the surface. Your slab may have already been planned but without a photo no way of telling for sure. You may be looking at chatter or feeder marks. If that's the case no need to replane just sand out the marks.

A decent sander for a DIY project or home handyman is a Porter Cable random orbit sander. If the slab isn't already installed and you can sand the entire surface this will be the only sander you need. If it is installed and you need to get into corners or around fixtures a Black & Decker mouse will work just fine.

Some have suggested using a belt sander your slab. If it has been run through a planner the sander isn't necessary as it will already be flat. You are just looking to take out the working marks and refine the surface for finish. Further if you do not have any experience with a belt sander I would suggest you stay away form it until you have had some practice. You can ruin your slab in a New York second if you don't know what you are doing.

The bureau and locker doors below were sanded with the Porter Cable and the B&D Mouse to 220 before top coating. My wife who had never picked up a sander in her life did all the sanding. The doors currently have six coats of varnish. The bureau has four. Both will finish somewhere around ten coast. I apply two coast roughly four hours apart. Let dry twenty four to forty eight hours. Sand flat with 220 then scotchbrite with a gray 3M finishing pad before applying the next two coats.

Edit: If you need to practice or test samples such as stains/finishes use the bottom of the slab.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by javadog

If I were you, I would sand and finish a test piece before committing to doing the big one. If you don't have an extra sample, finish an area of the bottom or an edge where you won't see it.

Hand sanding is indeed a pain, but I've never liked the finish I get with a random orbital sander.

I guess this is new wood and the OP is preparing for the finish. It all depends on what the surface is now. Does ii have planer snipe? If so then initial sanding will need to be aggressive. So the commercial high speed drum sander is a great start. That leaves directional sanding marks even if ever so fine.

I just bought a Festool ROS but many are good. This one is quiet, smooth and it readily hooks up to a vac and is therefore really clean. Once I get down to 320, I use a cabinet scraper to produce a sanding grain free surface. Really brings the grain of the wood out. It's like hitting 'enhance' on your photo app.

Buy and use a tack rag. Once the first 2 coats are cured, use steel wool under a plastic pad. I like the ones that come with 3M Scotchbrite glued to the working surface. That will hold a piece of partially unfolded steel wool and do a wider swath than using your hand.

Just like sanding a car, pure hand sanding is not the best way. Use soft blocks or whatever to keep from scalloping or sanding through the finish.



If you want to make sure the Scotchbrite isn't hitting the surface, use a terry towel between the SB and the wool. Then remember that towel is contaminated and throw it away.

[Instrument 41]

Picked the balck walnut today. 12 ft run, 19" wide and 2" thick.

[drcoastline]

They look to have already been surfaced to me. The red arrows look to be chatter (snipe in Zekes post) from the planner. If it were me I would put some 80 grit in the Porter Cable and sand uniformly across the slab just until these marks are gone. After that you are refining the sanding marks. After 80 move to 100 or 120 then 180 or 220. After each grit thoroughly vacuum the surface to remove all sanding dust and any loose particles from the sandpaper. You can wipe the surface with mineral spirits every so often to see your progress. This will highlight any sand scratches that are in the surface and dissipates quickly. You will want to vacuum before wiping the mineral spirits on.

[drcoastline]

Sorry forgot to upload the photo of the slab. Red arrows pointing to the chatter/snipe.

[Zeke]

Yeah, that isn't anything but a rough thickness cut for the shop.