Minimum Round

[red-beard]

There is talk all over about the "best" round for self defense. And most put the minimum at 9mm (some at .40 S&W).

The .32ACP and .380ACP 1903 killed plenty of people, especially in the 1920's during Prohibition.

I present example A. The murder of Houston Cardiologist Dr. Hausknecht by Joseph Pappas.

Pappas killed Hausknecht with a 0.22LR pistol, while each were riding bicycles. Pappas fired 3 times, 2 in the chest and one to the head, killing Hausknecht.

Pappas was a former Constable (like a Sheriff) with 30 year experience. He also was a firearms instructor. I expect "shot placement" was key to this.

There is still a lot of speculation as to "why now?". We understand the basic motive, which was his mother died on the operating table, 20 years before. Some are speculating he had cancer or some medical issue and this was a murder-suicide.

Pappas was found by the police today and when confronted, took his own life. In the end, a coward.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/joseph-pappas-suspect-in-slaying-of-doctor-found-dead-in-southwest-houston

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by red-beard

There is talk all over about the "best" round for self defense. And most put the minimum at 9mm (some at .40 S&W).

...

Well James, you pose a question, and then discuss offense thereafter .

12 ga. 00 defensive load....like being hit with 4 .45 ACP within an 8" radius...all at once...threat stopped.

Then you work yer way down depending upon confidence & skill level

[crb07]

Shot placement is key.
I will take a G19 with 17+1 over a .45 every time.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by crb07

Shot placement is key.
I will take a G19 with 17+1 over a .45 every time.

Why do you need so many rounds bro....taking out two baseball teams ?

[fred cook]

Originally Posted by crb07

Shot placement is key.
I will take a G19 with 17+1 over a .45 every time.

If one is not skilled enough to stop a threat with 2-3 rds then they perhaps should not be carrying a firearm! The exception to that would be if you are going to a riot!

[id10t]

The mouse gun that you have with you is better than the boomenlouder you left at home because it is too heavy, too hard to conceal, etc.

[berettafan]

likely was nothing the victim could do.

until someone here posts up with 'I've shot many bad guys with various rounds and this is what I've seen' this entire thread will be nonsense.

IMO self defense is gonna end up being A-under control of your body and B-willing to pull the trigger

To that end I submit the best possible defense load is a prescription of beta blockers and any firearm you will actually practice a lot with. shotgun would be great.

[rfuerst911sc]

No one will ever agree that " this is the perfect round " for self defense as there are just too many opinions . I personally think anything from a .22 rim fire on up can get the job done but there are too many variables . Example: A .22 can kill a man with good shot placement and depending on what he's wearing . A heavy winter parka would probably stop or slow down a .22 round enough so the bad guy can survive . But if he's wearing a tee shirt the .22 becomes more deadly .

But like cars hp is king so most would grab something that starts with a 4 to defend themselves with . I have pistols/revolvers in .22/32/357/40 and if given a choice I will grab the 357 or the 40 . If no choice is available the 22/32 would be better than nothing .

Ultimately I hope to never have to make a choice .

[red-beard]

In the past couple of years, we've had 2 murders which used .22ACP. The other was a rifle (AR style). It was a California nut-ball on his way through Houston and started a SWAT standoff. He shot the owner of an auto repair shop in the throat. The rest of the people he shot all survived and had "minor" injuries.

My point: I see posts, not so much here, that if the round doesn't start with a ".4", it isn't worth carrying. Even .40 S&W is ridiculed, "Short and Weak".

My carry varies from a 4" 1903 in .380ACP, to a 2.5" .380ACP to a 3" 45ACP. I like to "pocket carry". Occasionally a Sig P226 in .40 S&W, if I have "deep pockets".

I'm not suggesting carrying a .22LR, unless that is all you can carry. I'm just saying that with a trained person, that round is deadly.

It is too bad Pappas used his "power" for Evil, in the end, and not Good.

[Tobra]

My best friend has wife and daughter that are both tiny little gals. Well the kid is now a head taller, but neither one could be carrying much more than a buck ten, maybe fifteen. The compact Glock .45 is a bit of a handful, even with the longer magazine and the little doo dad on the baseplate for your thumb. The Vepr 12 is a bit much too. He has this Marlin that is a pretty sweet 22. Light, high capacity, easy to hit what you are aiming at with. Plan is to grab that, point and shoot until they fall, run away or you are empty, then reload and call 911

I need a .357, my brother has a S&W I have coveted for a long time. Recently read a long article about the Colt snake guns, other brother has a .22 Diamondback that is a neat little thing. When I was in HS I worked at the movie theater. The security guard had this Python that was a beauty. He drove a gold, '72 Coupe de Ville with an opened up exhaust and dazzling wire wheels, would park it right out front of the place so the guy at the front door taking tickets could keep an eye on it.

[flatbutt]

For whatever reason my placement with my .22 is always better than with the 9mm. One 9 mm somewhere in the dinner plate sized area of chest/abdomen versus 3/4 .22 in the chest. If the .22 hit the lungs the perp will bleed out before 911 is called but could still get a shot off. The 9 mm will likely put him down but again he could get a shot off. So the shotgun is IMHO the round for the home. For carrying i'd vote for the 9 mm as the minimum.

[Jeff Higgins]

In the big game hunting world, we well understand the difference between "killing" and "stopping".

The same concept applies in self defense. Seeing the attacker die five hours later on the operating table still counts as a "kill", although things might not have worked out so well for the defender. Even if the attacker (man or beast...) dies ten seconds after being shot, he can still inflict a lot of harm on his victim. We want to stop above and beyond all else. Killing is secondary. Choose accordingly.

[id10t]

Of my choices in teh safe, from 22s to shotguns to battle rifles to ARs to 9mm pistols, the two things I have ready to go and in the front of the safe are a 22 pistol w/ red dot (for varmints) and a 9mm AR carbine (2 legged varmints). Small, light, accurate, relatively low noise (compared to 12ga, 308, 223, or even 9mm from a pistol), 33 rounds on tap with another 33 in a second mag.

If I didn't think the ATFE would wobble on their "arm brace" for AR "pistols", etc. then I'd build a second one up even smaller than the carbine, just for having a smaller functional package.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

In the big game hunting world, we well understand the difference between "killing" and "stopping".

The same concept applies in self defense. Seeing the attacker die five hours later on the operating table still counts as a "kill", although things might not have worked out so well for the defender. Even if the attacker (man or beast...) dies ten seconds after being shot, he can still inflict a lot of harm on his victim. We want to stop above and beyond all else. Killing is secondary. Choose accordingly.

Good point. The Doctor died in the ER, not at the scene.

[fred cook]

Take some lessons from a shooting professional, develop good basic shooting skills and then practice, practice, practice. Given time, you will find a weapon that suits you best.

[Don Ro]

For home defense...lying on the floor under a towel next to my bed...loaded:
~~~~~~~~~

[id10t]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

For home defense...lying on the floor under a towel next to my bed...loaded:
~~~~~~~~~

The new version - a "firearm" not a pistol, rifle, or shotgun...

[Don Ro]

Mine jumps quite a bit. I keep one hand up on the heat shield for control.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

For whatever reason my placement with my .22 is always better than with the 9mm. One 9 mm somewhere in the dinner plate sized area of chest/abdomen versus 3/4 .22 in the chest. If the .22 hit the lungs the perp will bleed out before 911 is called but could still get a shot off. The 9 mm will likely put him down but again he could get a shot off. So the shotgun is IMHO the round for the home. For carrying i'd vote for the 9 mm as the minimum.

I'll agree with that...shotgun at home. If I got a carry permit, not sure...kind of a tossup between 9mm or a snubby .357 magnum wheel gun, probably Smith.

Love my Hi-Power, but it's a bit bulky for carry.

[crb07]

Originally Posted by fred cook

If one is not skilled enough to stop a threat with 2-3 rds then they perhaps should not be carrying a firearm! The exception to that would be if you are going to a riot!

You carry a revolver with 3rounds I bet.

I have a few 7 round mags, simply choose not to carry them. Makes no sense.