S2000 or Miata

[jcwade]

I have had 2 Miatas and loved both. It is not a fast car but it is quick.

I only sold the last one as driving a stick in LA traffic is not fun.

I agree, go with the Mazdaspeed. The turbo gives it that extra kick and the fact that the factory burned down limited production numbers and increased the potential value.

AND, each one was bullet proof. Change the oil and get new tires, as needed, and you will be happy.

[masraum]

My first sportcar many years ago was an '88 911 targa, bone stock. It was an amazing car and no other car has had the character. I loved the HVAC and the bottom hinged pedals (miss those in the Boxster) and other quirky things. I'd give a nut for a perfect one today (but it would cost both nuts). On the highway from FL to Texas many years ago (2000-ish), I ran the 911 up to redline in 5th gear, that's 150mph. A Honda S2000 was right behind me.

When I sold that 911, I bought a '97 miata which is the last of the 1st gen, and IIRC, 133hp. The little 4 cyl felt pretty torquey. It wasn't fast, but it was tons of fun. I stiffened up the suspension a bit and went from 14x6 to 15x7 and was very happy for many years.

When that was a bit long in the tooth and my finances were better, I bought a 2004 Mazdaspeed (factory turbo). It was a much better car than the '97. Stock the '04 wasn't getting the boost that it was supposed to. I put a manual boost controller on it and was able to turn it up to where it was supposed to be or maybe .5# over. I also sold the 17" wheels and upgraded to 15x8" wheels. The MSM comes with LSD, Bilsteins and upgraded springs and anti-roll bars. I didn't feel the need to upgrade the suspension in that one.

My wife had a '99 miata which was the first of the 2nd gen. It had LSD and was otherwise very stock. The suspension felt stiffer than my '97 had been, but not nearly as stiff as it was after my upgrades. It was a great little car. I would have liked it a tiny bit stiffer, but it was great for her, and she loved it. I much preferred the cars having the LSD to the open diff.

When I got rid of the MSM, I bought an '08 Boxster S. It's a special edition and the first Boxster or Cayman to have over 300hp. It's a fantastic car. It's much better than all of the rest with higher limits and higher everything (except that the old air cooled 911 had way more character).

I wouldn't trade the Boxster, but I have been looking at the ND miatas and thinking, "man, that's a good looking little car, and seems to have gotten back to basics." Maybe I can talk the missus into another miata.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Is size important? Both of the options are on the small side.

How about a Mustang?

But only if it's a collectible "Bullitt" version.

[DWBOX2000]

Throw a hardtop and a rollbar in a miata, you will have tons of people appreciating the wheels. I have people all the time flag me down about my 2001 SE. The car is a blast but does where you down for long distance drives. Short rides, it's a blast. I chose for the cost to fix factor.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by masraum

I wouldn't trade the Boxster, but I have been looking at the ND miatas and thinking, "man, that's a good looking little car, and seems to have gotten back to basics." Maybe I can talk the missus into another miata.

I really seriously considered an NC Club PRHT or an early ND soft top. If my budget would have stretched for an ND RC I would probably be driving one today, because I ultimately decided that I liked the ND more but didn't want a soft top. In a few years when the more powerful 2019 RC starts getting cheap on the used market, that will be a serious daily driver contender.

[epbrown]

An Out Of the Box option: Pontiac Solstice GXP



Nice-looking, decent handling, cheap to maintain, and 300lb-ft of torque at 1500rpm with a factory tweak of the turbo that pretty much all of them have had by now; one of the better factory stereo systems I've encountered. Downside is the interior quality isn't up there with others (pleather seats, hard plastic dash) and trunk space is almost laughable. I've owned 4 Porsches, 5 BMWs, and a Rolls-Royce, and the car that the most women have complimented me on was my Solstice, so I'm guessing the Mrs will like it. The designer that did the Solstice left to do the first Tesla Roadster and is still their head of design. It's weird to me how people buy Miatas and add turbos or swap engines when the Solstice GXP is already there, a roadster with real muscle.

My take on some others mentioned:

The Honda S2000 is adored by younger types, and the reason insurance is so high is that they're frequently stolen and stripped for parts to go into other Hondas; the seats are hugely desired. Nice car if you don't mind keeping the revs up.

The Z3 has, imo, a poor chassis, though average for the times. The E85 Z4 was a big upgrade - more than twice as stiff - and is as reliable as the E46 3-series it's based on. That means not many engine issues, but replacing the water-pump every 60k miles. I suggest the face-lifted 3.0si. The performance of the 987 Boxster without the maintenance worries.

The 987 Boxster: the performance of a BMW Z4 with slightly better handling, much better brakes, nicer interior (the switches look worn quickly, though), an extra trunk and more leg room. The specter of IMS looms but I've always felt that was over-stated and it didn't worry me when I had mine.

It's so close on these two that if I were sports car shopping, I'd pick the Boxster if I wanted a roadster and a Z4 coupe if I wanted a hard-top.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Doesn't the Solstice have a ridiculously hard to operate top?

[Tobra]

Yes, top is fiddly. It does not have a trunk, the ability to transport two adult sized humans in comfort or the driving dynamics of any of the other cars mentioned, but it looks okay.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by epbrown

An Out Of the Box option: Pontiac Solstice GXP



Nice-looking, decent handling, cheap to maintain, and 300lb-ft of torque at 1500rpm with a factory tweak of the turbo that pretty much all of them have had by now; one of the better factory stereo systems I've encountered. Downside is the interior quality isn't up there with others (pleather seats, hard plastic dash) and trunk space is almost laughable. I've owned 4 Porsches, 5 BMWs, and a Rolls-Royce, and the car that the most women have complimented me on was my Solstice, so I'm guessing the Mrs will like it. The designer that did the Solstice left to do the first Tesla Roadster and is still their head of design. It's weird to me how people buy Miatas and add turbos or swap engines when the Solstice GXP is already there, a roadster with real muscle.

I've always liked the Solstice (more so than the Sky). I thought it was a good looking car. I have to imagine that it might be a pain in the rear since they had fairly limited production and parts may get hard to source.

My take on some others mentioned:

The Honda S2000 is adored by younger types, and the reason insurance is so high is that they're frequently stolen and stripped for parts to go into other Hondas; the seats are hugely desired. Nice car if you don't mind keeping the revs up.

The Z3 has, imo, a poor chassis, though average for the times. The E85 Z4 was a big upgrade - more than twice as stiff - and is as reliable as the E46 3-series it's based on. That means not many engine issues, but replacing the water-pump every 60k miles. I suggest the face-lifted 3.0si. The performance of the 987 Boxster without the maintenance worries.

The 987 Boxster: the performance of a BMW Z4 with slightly better handling, much better brakes, nicer interior (the switches look worn quickly, though), an extra trunk and more leg room. The specter of IMS looms but I've always felt that was over-stated and it didn't worry me when I had mine.

It's so close on these two that if I were sports car shopping, I'd pick the Boxster if I wanted a roadster and a Z4 coupe if I wanted a hard-top.

987 Cayman...

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Yes, top is fiddly. It does not have a trunk, the ability to transport two adult sized humans in comfort or the driving dynamics of any of the other cars mentioned, but it looks okay.

That seems to be what I remember reading, that the trunk is really more of a top storage area, and that if/when you put the top down, you then only have room left to fit a condom in the trunk.

And Miata tops take seconds to put up or down and for folks with long enough reach, it can be done from the driver's seat.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Anyone with S2000 experience? Any years to avoid, etc?

Yes. I love the S2000, what an engine and driveline. However- the early ones, early 2000s, IMHO, were nasty handlers. The rear end was choppy and unpredictable, the thing wanted to bump steer and fling itself sideways on any thing less than a perfect surface. I remember driving it to and from a Porsche Factory driving weekend, and in comparison to the sublime handling Boxsters of the day, it was chalk and cheese.

Im told later iterations of the S2000 were much better. Jeebus, what an engine, great car. And so are all the generations of Miata.

[Zeke]

Since the Boxster was brought up you can find a good example for a ridiculously low price due to the numbers produced. Just a thought. We're hanging on to ours as it's worth like 6K.

[Kraftwerk]

S2000 is at 'collectable" status right now. It is a very beautiful design, perhaps Hondas best ever. Miatas are plentiful and fun to thrash around. Depends on how you want to use the car and how precious you are about your toys. The Miata gives you more freedom to not care . I really like my '99. and its cheap to buy and maintain.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Yes, top is fiddly. It does not have a trunk, the ability to transport two adult sized humans in comfort or the driving dynamics of any of the other cars mentioned, but it looks okay.

I'm 6' and 180 lbs and had no trouble fitting, even with my size 15 feet. The top didn't strike me as particularly fiddly - about the same as any manual convertible top. Trunk space with the top down will fit a couple of soft-sided duffel bags for a weekend, but it's ridiculously small compared to most cars, I'll grant. As far as driving dynamics, I liked the low, wide stance - the lack of seat bolsters was my gripe. Worth a test drive, imo.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by epbrown

I'm 6' and 180 lbs and had no trouble fitting, even with my size 15 feet. The top didn't strike me as particularly fiddly - about the same as any manual convertible top. Trunk space with the top down will fit a couple of soft-sided duffel bags for a weekend, but it's ridiculously small compared to most cars, I'll grant. As far as driving dynamics, I liked the low, wide stance - the lack of seat bolsters was my gripe. Worth a test drive, imo.

Have you had or tried a miata top. In a miata, you can stop at a stop sign and put the top down (or up) from the driver's seat without getting out of the car in seconds.
The solstice is NOT that easy. You must get out of the car to put the top up or down.

Also, when you put the top down in the miata, there is no change to the trunk space. The top doesn't intrude into the trunk at all. You can't even see the top from the trunk.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by epbrown

I'm 6' and 180 lbs and had no trouble fitting, even with my size 15 feet. The top didn't strike me as particularly fiddly - about the same as any manual convertible top. Trunk space with the top down will fit a couple of soft-sided duffel bags for a weekend, but it's ridiculously small compared to most cars, I'll grant. As far as driving dynamics, I liked the low, wide stance - the lack of seat bolsters was my gripe. Worth a test drive, imo.

You obviously never sat in the passenger seat. No, the top is not close to as easy to use as most other convertible tops, unless you mean TR-3 or Stutz Bearcat. Trunk is tiny compared to a Miata, which is saying something.

Low wide stance is not what I am talking about when I refer to driving dynamics. It felt bigger and heavier than it was. Steering feel was not very good. Good power and brakes though.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by masraum

Have you had or tried a miata top. In a miata, you can stop at a stop sign and put the top down (or up) from the driver's seat without getting out of the car in seconds. The solstice is NOT that easy. You must get out of the car to put the top up or down.

That never bothered me, as I don't think I've ever raised or lowered a top while driving. Maybe my threshold is higher than other people, as I'm used to a SC Targa. ;-)

Also, when you put the top down in the miata, there is no change to the trunk space. The top doesn't intrude into the trunk at all. You can't even see the top from the trunk.

That, I never really got. The Solstice top lays across the entire trunk, which is shallow to begin with. That was weird for a fairly modern roadster.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by epbrown

That never bothered me, as I don't think I've ever raised or lowered a top while driving. Maybe my threshold is higher than other people, as I'm used to a SC Targa. ;-)

I am not a diehard convertible person (despite my vehicles for the last 19 years being a targa, 2 miatas and a boxster). I only put the top down occasionally if the weather is just right and usually when it's dark or overcast. So I have been known to frequently put the top down at a stop sign or stop light. It's nice to not have to get out of the car to do that. Also, since I when I do have the top down, it's likely to be cloudy, I occasionally encounter rain which means the top has to go up quickly. I've done that at a stop light too.

And back when I had my '88 911 targa, I have done the same with the targa top (taking the top off and stowing it behind the seats full length while at a stop light). I don't think I ever managed to gracefully put the top back on from the driver's seat though.

[gtc]

Aside from the engine, there were a few other improvements over the years. Like the old 911 saying, buy the newest one you can afford.

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-talk-1/what-look-when-buying-used-s2000-just-bought-used-s2000-775801/

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

As follow up to my MB question....want a weekend ragtop for taking Mrs Choc on mountain drives, etc. My days of repairing cars on the side of the road are behind me.

Have recently been looking for a NC2 Miata with a 6 speed, but not much available. I would have guessed in a city the size of Atlanta, there would be dozens. Nope.

It seems I can get a nice, low mileage early S2000 (2000-2002) for about the same money as a later model Miata (2010-2012).

Im pretty sure that Miatas will never retain value. An appliance to be used up without any drama. But what about an S2K? Honda reliability, no longer made, and seem to have a somewhat loyal following.

Anyone with S2000 experience? Any years to avoid, etc?

[Chocaholic]

Found a black/black 2010 (NC2) Miata with leather, 6 speed and PRHT with 64k on it. Carfax was clean, owner is about my age (late 50’s) and a solid guy in a nice neighborhood. He just bought a Kia Stinger (holy shlt, that’s a nice car). Not a ding or scratch to be found...appeared to be a loved car.

Looking forward to an upcoming fall trip to the NC mountains! Appreciate the comments and advice. A couple bad pics from his ad: