Reproducing an antique water pump

[Porchdog]

My buddy has been struggling with a 1912 International High Wheeler for a while.







His only unsolved problem now is the water pump.

He has had it welded locally a couple of times but it falls apart after assembly or while running. I fear it is to far gone for welding repairs now.

Jay Leno had an episode where he 3-D printed this same pump. I remembered it because it was while my friend was struggling with this one.

My inclination is to get a custom casting made and finish machine it. Obviously it is complex and that won't be cheap. Since Jay already made one, I would love to try to get another. Anyone have any idea how to reach him?

Anyone know any resources where I might be able to find a pump? Apparently these International Twins were pretty popular in the day, I am thinking that someone might have one.

We will make one if we have to - but I'd rather buy one.

[craigster59]

I work near his "garage" and see him every now and then. I can ask him or talk to his mechanic.

[908/930]

Try to look into anyone nearby that can do sand casting, using the old one to make the mould. possibly cast it out of bronze.

[asphaltgambler]

^^^^This - if a guy in Cuba working out of a shed the size of coat closet , with a single light bulb dangling off of tapped circuit from a light pole - can do sand casting - you can too. If it were me, that'd be the route to go. Materials can be purchased cheaply.

Most likely how the part was made originally....

[Porchdog]

I am confident that the original was sand cast. If I thought that I could do a dozen or more I absolutely would be looking that way.

Even starting with a fresh sand casting machining will be complex - turning from both ends and at least 4 milling setups. again, if I was doing a run that isn't to bad. To make one it's a lot of setup work.

If my buddy can buy one - either repro or an original - it is likely a lot less expensive and time consuming.

Rebuilding the carb involved making a few parts that were to far gone to reuse - but they we simpler than this.

These very old cars aren't worth much any more and my buddy isn't rich. He want's to fix it right but he isn't eager to spend more than he has to.

[93nav]

I am of no help, but interesting topic/thread. Please let us know how it turns out. I to would be looking for a used one.

[GWN7]

Do it yourself sandcasting is pretty easy. I've done it and there are a bunch of videos on YouTube about it.

The problem is whatever is the original is reproduced in the molding. You are missing a chunk of the flange and that would be reproduced and you don't want a missing piece of the new part.

Completely disassembly of the old part. Even removal of the brass bushing then scan the part. It should be a simple matter to remake the part on a CNC machine with the missing pieces remade from a stronger grade of material than the original.

[GWN7]

Here's a video of a guy doing home sand casting. He's building a ship in his backyard in the Midwest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPnSb3yzytE

[wdfifteen]

Look up a man named Wendel Kelch in Bethel, Ohio. If he doesn’t have a spare pump he may know someone who has one. He may already have a pattern for a new casting. I think the AW and MW both used the same pump.
Wendel has gathered a stable of craftsmen who can make nearly anything from metal or wood. Wendel is at the epicenter of all things old IH. He has done some amazing work. He restored a 1917 JohnDeere experimental tractor starting with not much more than a cracked engine case and some photos.
Also, LeRoy Baumgardner in Pennsylvania has tons of original early IH engineering drawings, he is likely to have the drawings for that casting.
These guys routinely make missing parts for one of a kind old cars, trucks, and tractors.

[GH85Carrera]

I can't see trying to do it yourself. In theory it is possible, but you will spend a lot of effort and money learning to make it right. I would concentrate on fining the contact of the Wendel Kelch's of the world from the post above. Or look on Jay Leno's web site, or contact his agent.

If someone had already made a working version they will have a good idea of how to make another one.

I bet Jay would love to hear of your project and may have the perfect solution to your problem.

[rockfan4]

Here's a guy who made one.
A water pump pattern
Someone asked him about the pattern 4 years later and he said it belongs to the foundry that he worked for at the time, maybe they still have it and would make you another one?

[island911]

Nice find ^ rockfan4

P-dog; you need a pattern that is scaled up to compensate for mold shrinkage

Or, scan it/CAD model, machine it/ SLS 3D print.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by GWN7

Do it yourself sandcasting is pretty easy. I've done it and there are a bunch of videos on YouTube about it.

The problem is whatever is the original is reproduced in the molding. You are missing a chunk of the flange and that would be reproduced and you don't want a missing piece of the new part.

Completely disassembly of the old part. Even removal of the brass bushing then scan the part. It should be a simple matter to remake the part on a CNC machine with the missing pieces remade from a stronger grade of material than the original.

You just bondo the old part first. The problem I see is the temperature required for the molten metal for a DIY project. AL is not bad, but going up from there takes serious heating equipment.

[aschen]

thinking out loud:

Can he cut off the cone/flange part and have that part turned from bar stock? Should be a couple hundred bucks in a sensible material. Cut a suitable relief for where the new and old parts will meet and weld up.

A full model, print and finish machine will run into the 4 figures I think.

[Porchdog]

This forum is amazing.

I'm going to follow up with the resources above.

If I need to I can model the pattern and / or generate CNC code. I wouldn't cast my own aluminum or bronze - there are foundries for that.

Thanks so much !

[wdfifteen]

Wendel Kelch. 513-743-2568.

[John Rogers]

Try this guy: A water pump pattern

[unclebilly]

George Kirkham in Lethbridge Alberta is an avid IH collector and may have one of these or certainly know where you could find one.

An alternative is Ron Carey in Calgary Alberta who has a collection of several hundred vintage commercial vehicles and a full time staff who restores this kind of thing for him.

[Porchdog]

Regarding the "water pump pattern" video posted by John Rogers and rockfan4 - That is fantastic.

The foundry referenced in the video is the Port Townsend foundry. It appears that they still have the patterns - we are getting a price.

Thanks for all the leads!

[GH85Carrera]

Imagine trying to do that in the era before the internet.