Crabbing it in

[911_Dude]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

- Doesn't it seem to anyone else he didn't de-crab enough just before touch down, and put a hell of a lot of strain on the main gear ? I cringed when watching that snap change of direction upon touchdown.

Thats how its normally done, because doing a traditional wing-low crab on final doesnt "feel good" to passengers. And it can get you into trouble if you drag a engine nacelle.

- It looks awesome, makes for great media stuff, but.... isn't that their job? We tend to make everyone heroes these days in the media... I'd expect any certified airline pilot to have those skills. If I'm wrong about that, I need to rethink who I fly with....

Maybe it's just me asking for too much... Cool video - no argument.

I tend to trust that the pilots didnt intentionally try to land beyond the limits of their AOM. We cant tell if they did or didnt from the camera perspective. It just "looks like a lot of crab". But Ill give the crew the benefit of the doubt.

[pavulon]

The wet pavement would better allow the tires to skid sideways unloading a fair bit of lateral landing gear shock/stress at touch down.

[petrolhead611]

Letting some flap off on the ground is normal to get weight on the wheels so that the tyres will grip better under braking Once you know you have enough runway ahead in which to stop let the last stage off.

[seafeye]

The Airbus was out of its league. Having only spoilerons gives it a disadvantage. Once landing he would have easily run out of side stick control.
The 757 did a great landing not sure if he/she was within crosswind limitations. But if the pilot would have bent up the airplane then I’m sure management would throw them under the bus. They get nothing from management for getting it in. It’s their job after all.
Wonder what the other variables were?
Fuel limitations?
End of a 4 day?
Fatigued issues?
Hunger Issues?
Captain had to get home?
Was there any signs of “get there itis”?

Simply grading the landing is one thing. But if something had happened...the crew would have been in hot water. They might still be if they exceeded any company or aircraft limitations.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

Do commercial flights have actual limits?

For the small, general aviation airplanes I fly, there is no "limit". The Pilot's Operating Handbook (POH- the airplane version of owner's manual) lists what the factory test pilots demonstrated during certification, but it is not a legal limit. Pilot's are allowed to exceed it if they so choose.

Boeing has a limit on this plane of about 35 kn, most airlines have a limit of about 30 kn.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

Admittedly I have not flown as sole pilot in >20y and I've never been an airline pilot (just small prop jobs)...
2 Q:

- Doesn't it seem to anyone else he didn't de-crab enough just before touch down, and put a hell of a lot of strain on the main gear ? I cringed when watching that snap change of direction upon touchdown.
- It looks awesome, makes for great media stuff, but.... isn't that their job? We tend to make everyone heroes these days in the media... I'd expect any certified airline pilot to have those skills. If I'm wrong about that, I need to rethink who I fly with....

Maybe it's just me asking for too much... Cool video - no argument.

There's about three ways of landing a plane in a crosswind, from when I can observe as a non-professional, Boeing tends to build pretty stout landing gear which gives a pilot more options.

[Neilk]

wind at 26 kts gusting to 40.... per the original clip below.

I would hate to have been in the last row of the plane as the pilot gives it full right rudder.

[flatbutt]

I just don't get the physics of that. Further upon landing did she lock the starboard wing landing gear to bring the nose to the right?

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

Do commercial flights have actual limits?

For the small, general aviation airplanes I fly, there is no "limit". The Pilot's Operating Handbook (POH- the airplane version of owner's manual) lists what the factory test pilots demonstrated during certification, but it is not a legal limit. Pilot's are allowed to exceed it if they so choose.

We have a Cessna 182. In Oklahoma most days it is just like the musical "where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain" we often take off and land with the wind sock point straight out. We certainly have limits, but any experienced pilot in Oklahoma can take off and land in crosswinds. We have taken off and to keep looking down the runway you have to look out the side window. When every other pilot at the airport is taking off and landing is is no big deal. It was cool to watch a T-6 Texan II come down from Vance and do several touch and goes as we are doing our pre-flight. The T-6 got a lot of crosswind practice that day.

[Fly Mach .86]

Standard procedure is to crab into the wind, then just before touchdown, lower the wing (not too far) into the wind and straighten the nose (with rudder pedals) as much a possible to track straight down the runway. Then put the nose wheel on the ground as soon as possible to facilitate directional authority, get on the brakes and let the anti-skid do it's magic. When everyone started using the more powerful and fuel efficient high by-pass ration turbo fan engines the diameter of the engine nacelles became much larger which put the bottom of the nacelle closer to the ground limiting further how much you could lower the wing into the wind. I faced this problem many times in the DC-8 and the B-747. It always amazed me how much abuse the landing gear could take. It's very easy to second guess these situations. Was she light on fuel? Was the weather at the alternate just as bad? As a 35 year old captain, how much experience did she have? I enjoyed flying big jets but happy not to have to make those decisions any longer.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Fly Mach .86

Standard procedure is to crab into the wind, then just before touchdown, lower the wing (not too far) into the wind and straighten the nose (with rudder pedals) as much a possible to track straight down the runway. Then put the nose wheel on the ground as soon as possible to facilitate directional authority, get on the brakes and let the anti-skid do it's magic. When everyone started using the more powerful and fuel efficient high by-pass ration turbo fan engines the diameter of the engine nacelles became much larger which put the bottom of the nacelle closer to the ground limiting further how much you could lower the wing into the wind. I faced this problem many times in the DC-8 and the B-747. It always amazed me how much abuse the landing gear could take. It's very easy to second guess these situations. Was she light on fuel? Was the weather at the alternate just as bad? As a 35 year old captain, how much experience did she have? I enjoyed flying big jets but happy not to have to make those decisions any longer.

Yea, I bet. A bad screw up or bad day at work will be headline news all over the world. If I screw up in my job, it might cost us some time, effort and money, but it is NOT life and death. Ever.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

I just don't get the physics of that. Further upon landing did she lock the starboard wing landing gear to bring the nose to the right?

It's easy to under-appreciate the power of a big rudder at speed...especially until the nose wheel is firmly planted on the runway.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

- Doesn't it seem to anyone else he didn't de-crab enough just before touch down, and put a hell of a lot of strain on the main gear ? I cringed when watching that snap change of direction upon touchdown.
.

Yes, you are correct.. She did pull it off, but landed WAY too sideways and I bet gets chewed out or brought in for extra sims for it..

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

Do commercial flights have actual limits?

For the small, general aviation airplanes I fly, there is no "limit". The Pilot's Operating Handbook (POH- the airplane version of owner's manual) lists what the factory test pilots demonstrated during certification, but it is not a legal limit. Pilot's are allowed to exceed it if they so choose.

Probably just flight manual policy created by the individual airlines.
I am guessing that's why you can see several different "limit" figures (among other things) thrown out there for the same A/C.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

Doesn't it seem to anyone else he didn't de-crab enough just before touch down, and put a hell of a lot of strain on the main gear ? I cringed when watching that snap change of direction upon touchdown.

Likely depends on the specific A/C, Wx/wind, and runway conditions. However, I know the "land in a crab" (i.e. no de-crab) option has been around a long time, and is an "approved" method on a number of heavy A/C.
It could be more of a no-no in the dry, but you see heavies land like that all the time in strong crosswinds. Perfectly normal/acceptable in this situation, with several benefits of doing so I believe.

Originally Posted by Deschodt

It looks awesome, makes for great media stuff, but.... isn't that their job? We tend to make everyone heroes these days in the media... I'd expect any certified airline pilot to have those skills. If I'm wrong about that, I need to rethink who I fly with....

Nope, I think you are spot on. The video was cool, and it was certainly a sporty approach, but didn't really strike me as news-worthy.
Definitely a shrewd move on the airline's part to seize the PR opportunity with an "atta girl" though!

[petrolhead611]

GH85, I bet you wouldn't do that in a Tomohawk or a 177 RG.
I have flown in and out of Tulsa on a very long grass strip (2000 yard) but can't remember much of a crosswind problem but the same morning had a bit of fun landing at Coffeeville Kansas

[rattlsnak]

Here's how to NOT do it.. lol..

[rattlsnak]

Some good ones in here also!

[berettafan]

eek did the airbus driver forget to do something with his rudder there?

[scottmandue]

If you like this you should watch cruise ship crab it's way through an opening in the breakwater in a high wind.

I was kicking down by the harbor on the pier across from angels gate (opening in breakwater) and this cruise ship was leaving in a high crosswind. I'm watching it motor directly towards the breakwater and wondering if I was going to witness a disaster. Then as it angels gate it lined up and slipped through.